Summary: There is no need to read this entire post, it is long and full of science. If you want the take home message, then here it is. Lifewave patches are placebo. In other words, they are very expensive pieces of gauze with a sticky bit. If someone has told you that they cure certain conditions, then you should ask them for evidence, since there is nothing to show that these patches work, none, ever. They are making it up, or they are deluded, or they are lying. You decide. Search for evidence. I bet you don’t find it.

How would you like your pain reduced by 50 -100% in just 2 minutes?

Increase your energy and strength endurance within minutes of use.

Lose weight fast! Remember, if you are overweight, it is not your fault…

Imagine rapid, drug-free sleep…

Elevate your blood glutathione levels by over a whopping 300% in just 24 hours!

The next miracle cure has arrived. Lifewave miracle patches are currently touring Australia giving seminars on how to become a distributor.

The series of five pads are known as Energy Enhancer, Icewave, Silent Nights, Glutathione and Sp6. And like most miracle cures these guys can treat or “assist with” everything and anything.

For example the energy pads, relieve symptoms of fatigue, loss of sleep, nervousness, exhaustion, muscle weakness, drowsiness etc. and support energy production, breathing and stamina.

Icewave is the pain relief pad, and assists with the temporary relief of arthritis related joint pain, general body aches, stiffness; soreness, swelling & bruising due to falls or blows, headaches due to stress, strain or illness, spasms & cramps due to strain or injury from overexertion.

Silent night plus is for symptomatic relief due to exhaustion; inability to fall asleep, restlessness, tossing and turning, sleeplessness, due to stress or worry. Light sleeping, overactive mind, tension/anxiety, nervous exhaustion, and insomnia.

The glutathione booster is anti-ageing (and anti-autism but more on that later) and Sp6 is a weight loss and appetite control patch.

Who are Lifewave?

David Schmidt, Education: Unknown Degrees: Unknown Previous Employment: Unknown Scientific Background: Unknown Nanotechnology Background: Unknown Previous MLMs: BioForce and Vitagenix

David Schmidt, Education: Unknown Degrees: Unknown Previous Employment: Unknown Scientific Background: Unknown Nanotechnology Background: Unknown Previous MLMs: BioForce and Vitagenix

Do a Google search for LifeWave and you get a lot of hits for scam websites, pyramid marketing and multi-level marketing (MLM). On the Worldwide scam network website they get an entire page dedicated to their dubious claims.

Lifewave is headed by the patch inventor and president, David Schmidt. He is not a doctor or a scientist. According to WWSN, he has no apparent history, no formal education, no professional experience in his field, no published peer review of any research into any of the so-called technology associated with his patches or any science whatsoever.

But the health and science director of the company, Dr Steve Haltiwanger is a proper doctor with qualifications from the Medical College of Georgia. Dr. Haltiwanger has a public record which establishes him as an educated professional with degrees in psychiatry, neurology, medicine, chemistry and pathology, professional memberships, awards, publications, academic appointments, medical licenses, and an impressive work history that spans 34 years. However he also has a wide range of interests that run the gamut of alternative medicine, unconventional therapies, and radical theories.

Evidence that even highly educated people can believe ridiculous things.

How do the patches work?

Firstly, the patches are self adhesive, round and about the size of a nicotine patch. According to the website, they are a “non-transdermal patch that does not put any chemicals or drugs into the body” but “by stimulating acupuncture points on the body with a combination of pressure and infared energy….what that means is they will reflect specific frequencies of infrared light to the body to improve circulation and relieve pain.”

This sounds a lot like someone has put some sciencey words in a hat and pulled them put at random Mr Schmidt.

Let’s look first at the claims about infared light. Photobiomodulation is a term peppered throughout their material and this is in fact, a legitimate scientific technique. It has been shown to be effective in wound healing, but this requires light to be shone on the wound. I can’t see any evidence for light being chanelled into these pads. It just doesn’t make scientific sense.

Whilst infared light does exist and can be used for some therapies, exactly how these pads apparently do this is not explained.

The Energy Enhancer patches apparently “stimulate acupuncture points on the body for improving the flow of energy and producing drug-free energy enhancement within minutes of use”. This apparently has something to do with light being chanelled down the meridian lines.

Well I’m afraid people have been searching for the elusive meridian lines for centuries and we have yet to find them. There is still no physiological evidence that meridian lines exist.

There is also a patch called glutathione which is supposed to be anti-ageing since it will apparently; “elevate your anti-oxidant levels by over 300 percent in one day”. And the website proudly displays a graph demonstrating this increase (see above). There are articles all over the website under the research tag, but none appear in peer reviewed scientific journals. Sorry to be boring Lifewave but as a scientist, I require evidence for such extraordinary claims.

And I’m not sure how “stimulating acupuncture points through light can increase levels of glutathione”. It’s very difficult to critique this statement, because scientifically it just doesn’t make sense.

Of course there are plenty of testimonials from satisfied customers, even some pretty important people like Olympic athletes and National Football League players. But I will get onto this a bit later.

In any case, none of this is important when you discover that LifeWave products are homeopathic. Which means that they likely have nothing in them. So what’s the point in discussing the science if what we really have here is a piece of guaze and some water, maybe. Mr Schmidt claims they contain amino acids, oxygen sugars and water and it’s the amino acids that do all the work. But all I found on the website was a list of homeopathic ingredients.

So if they contain water and oxygen how can they cure autism?

According to an audio testimonial buried in the bowels of the website, the glutathione patch has been helping kids with autism. There are two testimonials, one from a father of a 6 year old boy who says he has tried everything including foot baths (?) and as a last resort sought a blood transfusion for his son, to remove the mercury from his system deposited following immunisation. I assume the reference to mercury comes from the scaremongering about thimerosal, the organomercury compound used as a preservative in some vaccines (but as I discussed last week, thimerosal was removed from childhood vaccines in the year 2000 as a precaution and recently the Autism Omnibus case in the States ruled there is not link between autism and thimerosal).

You might be wondering how Lifewave get away with making such extraordinary claims about a homeopathic patch that likely contains no active ingredients. Well here’s the trick. They don’t officially claim their glutathione pads assist kids with autism – a couple of satisfied customers do. You won’t find this claim in any of their promotional material or on their website. And whilst it is clear from the testimonial that the client was told this by a Lifewave distributor, Lifewave do not have control over what the their distributors say. Whilst they can request they do not say this, ultimately they do not have control. So that’s them off the legal hook.

Dubious and deceitful. Especially when it come to an emotive and debilitating illness like autism for which there is currently no cure.

Lifewave are currently in Australia doing seminars and recruiting distributors.

Stay well away.

———–

Postscript: According to the WWSN, Lifewave backed out of the JREF 1 million dollar challenge because as they said; “the challenge is for testing claims of the paranormal”. Randi responded, “If this thing works as claimed, it is paranormal. There is no scientific principle by which it can work, so it is – by definition – paranormal. In any case, we agree to accept it as paranormal for purposes of the challenge, without reservation.”

A paper from Dr Steve Haltiwanger, entitled The Science Behind Lifewave Energy Patches, not published in a peer review journal, makes for some fairly entertaining reading.


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  • max

    I must say I was a skeptic, however I have “documented proof” the Glutathione patches work. I have been HIV + for 15 years and my T-cell count, which is well documented has been around 270 for over 10 years. Despite an undetectable level of the virus due to HIV medication my T-cells have never recovered. After a recommendation as a test I used the Glutathione patches every day for one month to see what effect and tested my bloods again. To my doctors complete surprise, and mine as well, my T-cells jumped by 100 to 380. A re-test showed the same. As someone who has been tested every 3 months for the past 15 years I would say that this is proof. No I don’t understand how they work, and as I said I was very very skeptical…but the facts are that they worked!! I have the proof. I really thought that patches with a little plastic ball under them was a joke, I even felt ripped off, but when the tests came back the proof was there in black and white. I don’t feel any better, or look any younger, but my T-cells which is a definite gauge of your immune system shows the Glutathione patches did do something albeit radically that my doctor is talking to others about because it is so well documented and clear cut. No medication has ever been able to boost my t-cells ever.

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  • duh

    Uh, Nescio, the reason you don’t feel anything after drinking coffee for 15 years is because you become TOLERANT to it, not because of a placebo effect. Your body actually changes its makeup and the receptors that caffeine interacts with change in number and function so that the initial effects of small caffeine doses are no longer felt. The rush and nervous energy seen with the first few uses of the drug goes away after tolerance occurs.

  • fatherless

    Rachel,

    Thank you for this information and thank you, bloggers, for keeping me entertained with your banter.
    On a more serious note, my father bought into this patch scam and claims that Lifewave products are miracle cures for MS and chronic pain. The truth is, my father is spending money he DOES NOT HAVE on a quack in the hopes that he will yield something, ANYTHING which he hasn’t. He is broke and very unhealthy to boot. He has COPD (wish good ole’ Lifewave would make a patch to get rid of that, right?) and is a miserable and unhappy person. I blame the company for preying on such hopeless people, and I blame the hopeless people for their sloth and ignorance. To all you Life Wave distributors, GET A REAL JOB!!!!!!

  • these are amazing products,i say it from my personal experiance

  • Nescio

    I seem to have wandered into this entertaining discussion a year or so too late. Anyway, I think that most of us don’t have the faintest idea of how much our subjective experience is affected by suggestion aka the placebo effect.

    Here’s an anecdote for you. When I was a teenager I found that coffee was very effective at waking me up in the morning, and keeping me awake if I needed to when I was tired. I became a caffeine fiend and drank a lot of coffee over the next 15 years or so.

    Then I read an article that said a minority of people find caffeine has a sedating effect. From then on, the stimulant effect I had come to rely on in caffeine had gone. I can drink a cup of strong coffee just before bed and sleep like a baby. If I drink a lot of coffee, I get unpleasantly jittery, but it still doesn’t keep me awake.

    The only conclusion I can come to is that the stimulant effect I used to get from coffee, or most of it, was nothing but the placebo effect. I wonder how much of the effects of other drugs is placebo – alcohol, illegal drugs and pharmaceutical drugs.

    My apologies if reading this has a deleterious effect on your experience of coffee 🙂

  • Mark

    I tried the Y-Age (Glutathione/Carnosine) and Energy patches for a month and noticed absolutely nothing. In fact, I actually fell asleep in front of the TV one night whilst wearing the “Energy” patches! (I forgot that I still had them on after wearing them all day.)

    I can hear the LifeWavers saying that I probably didn’t follow the instructions correctly. I can assure them that I did – I tried the patches on every acupuncture point that was recommended, and I kept myself well hydrated (as per the instructions).

  • Hmmmmm

    I have posted this on other sites as a lesson to those on both sides of the fence ( for and against )
    I have to make one more comment here.

    TO those that have only an opinion it is not seen as a responsible way of making your opinion public without any evidence either way.
    For those that are Pro Lifewave i suggest you spend your time undergoing a controlled experiment to validate the efficacy of the product and to eliminate the Placebo effect as the underlying cause of your well being.

    To those that are pure skeptics it would also be worth putting your money where your mouth is and undergoing the same process as your adversaries.
    In the assumption that the product doesn’t work purely based on the fact that the original person ( Moron )who invented these things does not publish his CV is ridiculous. A persons anonymity is no grounds for disqualifying any product and the resulting vilification of said person.

    Acupuncture is well regarded treatment regime that is covered by most of the medical insurance companies and most GPs will tell you that it works but they don,t know why. This statement in itself leads the casual observer to the fact that there are far more things going on in the body that the Pure chemical / cellular processes than what is understood by medicine as a whole.

    IF these patches stimulate the acupuncture points in a chemical way rather than puncturing the skin with needles then great but if they don’t then what the smeg is going on.

    Like all systems external influences often play a role in the way it responds to certain stimuli and the human body is by far the best reference we have to that in the known universe.

    Quackery is alive and well but in some cases the fore-mentioned quackery may have some basis in truth however we fail to see the reasoning behind these claims and then cast these people into hell for their comments due to our beliefs. The general uneducated and opinionated population is usually the ones that starts this process underway and then questions are raised in the academic community who have deep routed beliefs and egos the size of houses and then the whole thing is discredited. Galileo was a fantastic example of the truth being a threat to the structure of belief and the powerhouses of that belief, not to say that this is the case here and that this moron is by any means in Galileo’s league.
    So we must open our minds and ask the questions and undertake the experiments to gather worthwhile real and unbiased data to accurately determine the efficacy of this series of products and not just by the scientific community. in many cases they come into this with prejudged views as it may effect the results of their data and beliefs.

    So stop your opinions on both sides and do the experiments in a proper and controlled fashion without bias or tampering of the process or results to suit your beliefs or predetermined ideals.

    As for the company and their practices, they should be put up against the wall and shot for the claims they make without any evidence or factual data.
    Individual experience in not enough evidence for a conclusion and should never be considered so.

    My GP wanted me to try them and i noticed some improvement in the short term however this may be nothing more than coincidence or related to diet or condition.

    Just remember it isn’t how many questions you ask it is if you ask the right question or not!

  • freesvea

    From reading your blog would I be correct to assume that you do not believe in homeopathic treatments, acupuncture and other “alternative therapies”? Just becasue you can’t understand how something could possibly work, or just becasue you don’t feel there is an adequate scientific explanation for how something could work, it doesn’t mean that it DOES NOT work.

    Have you actually tried the LifeWave patches yourself??? I have been unwell for almost 10 years and have been too unwell to work for over 3 years with Chronic Fatigue caused by a range of other problems including hypothyroidism. I have tried many MANY different things. I spent many years unnecessarily unwell becasue normal doctors of the western medicine approach were so utterly clueless.

    I have tried many alternative approaches as I have been desperate. But nothing has really worked for me. The “placebo” effect you so generously refer to, has unfortunately not done much for me. I’m too sceptical I suppose. I’m always doubtful things will work unless I can clearly see the results.

    I have tried some homeopathic stuff before, most have not worked, while some I liked even though I wasn’t at all convinced that they really did anything. I don’t see how it could possibly work. It doesn’t make sense to me.

    So when a friend told me about the lifewave patches I was sceptical, but I wasn’t going to pass it up, as I was desperate. If it’s not too ridiculously expensive for me, then I’ll at least give it a shot, despite being sceptical.

    Well, they DID work. They haven’t miraculously cured me. I’m not suddenly a record breaking athlete. But I do have significantly more energy, more stamina, and more constant and even energy levels, and I recover more quickly from activity. I use the Glutathione patch, and it has significantly improved my life. It’s not a placebo, as I’m too sceptical and cynical for that. (I’m not disputing that the placebo effect exists, I’ve studied psychology, so I’m quite aware that it exists) It’s easy for someone who doesn’t have a clue to say “oh, it’s a placebo”. I think you’ll find that people who suffer from extreme fatigue, exhaustion and pain, are quite capable of telling the difference!!! If you are not one of these courageous people, then you are not really qualified to dispute them. You probably think you are, but you’re really not.

  • Joel

    Hi, Rachael,

    A company in the U.S. called Windsor Productions, which produces a show called The American Health Journal, did a televised “special report” investigation on the Lifewave patches. As far as I can recall, their “investigation” included mostly people who have a financial interest in Lifewave (the president of Lifewave, MLM distributors of the product, their spouses, etc.), and did not feature the opinion of any outside expert or doctor offering any opposing view or even any skepticism. From viewing this television program, you’d think that Lifewave patches represented a revolutionary breakthrough in medicine. They began the show by reading some of Lifewave’s advertising copy pretty much verbatim, as if it were established scientific truth. There used to be a number of web pages that featured the video, but it looks like those videos have been taken down (e.g. http://www.life-wave-patches.com/Lifewave-Special-Report.html)

    The executive producer of that show, Mr. Roland Perez, is now looking for independent experts who will go on camera to offer an opposing view about Lifewave. Here is his contact information:

    Mr. Roland Perez
    ahj@thedoctorshow.com
    +1-760-836-0733

    I hope that you will contact Mr. Perez and make yourself available, to assist in exposing these silly patches for what they are.

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  • leo

    a company when it has distributers company does not want to undercut distributers by popping up new distributers everywere..distributers is the concrete to a company that make product….so meaning to many distributers in one country doesnt work meaning its a scam that will not last long good bye life wave american yanky shit

  • leo

    this life wave is false and all about money as americans are all about stealing copying and lying to make millions look what they did with recent war invaded another country steal oil and take over …… this product is bull —- its like the airoplane

  • robert

    When you go before a Court-or if you are religious you die and you go before God–only FACTS count.
    If Lifewave REALLY has invented a product that produces the effects they claim it does—then these results should be able to be replicated by independent testing agencies and be peer reviewed and get FDA approval.
    This removes the allmighty PLACEBO effect–which we all know can be ,and has been proven to be, all mighty powerful and EXISTS.
    Lets cut the bullcrap–Lightewave—-test your product independently–if not–you are making millions out of nothing more than quakery,placebo effect ,word of mouth.

  • zombiwulF

    @manni, I doubt you’ll accept this but be very careful who your sources are.

    Excuse me if Ive misread you but you’re *thanking* me for the link? Did I read it wrong or were the authors trying to *warn* people about this guy?!

    How easy it is to fall down the rabbit hole!

  • manni

    like I said, go blog to the wiggles

  • HJ

    And for the record: THAT is ad hominem.

  • HJ

    other wise its just ad hominem. YOUR WORD AGAINST MINE

    Oh FFS, you have no idea how the scientific process works, or what the phrase “ad hominem” means.

    Go and fucking read wikipedia for an afternoon and educate yourself, you fucking waste of oxygen.

    I’m done here, you’re an idiot.

  • manni

    No, You miss the point… I wasn’t joining your discussions… I was addressing the scientists who so arrogantly put her hands up for questioning.

    Your points mean very little because its not science that I was putting on the block… but scientist who think theirs is the only way.

    You need to read my blogs properly before commenting, becos as you’ve aptly demonstrated… you know very little of what’s happening around you.

    But let me dissect your last blog… you are assuming that Im addressing your science…. No… Im not!

    I was addressing the factor of science in finding out the cause… what? when? where? how? why? etc.. that is science in its simplest analogy…

    I wasnt assuming anything, you are… I was conveying the fact that science is about breaking down the unknown to the known, AND THAT TRUE SCIENCE IS ABOUT BRINGING IT DOWN TO ITS MOST BASIC STRUCTURE, DOWN TO THE BARE BASICS, THE GENESIS.

    In there you find its simplest form, and that is the genius OF science and of the scientist… who can find that and explain that to detail, and by that he educates everybody else and elevates every one to EVEN (common)GROUND.

    other wise its just ad hominem. YOUR WORD AGAINST MINE

    If English is your first language then I suggest you start blogging to the wiggles…

    IM NOT BLOGGING AGAINST SCIENCE… IM TELLING YOU TO WAKE UP AND RECOGNISE THE PROCESS OF BRINGING SOMETHING TO MARKET… IS NOT CONTROLLED BY THE SCIENTISTS PER SE! And because this is a fact, science has been compromised… The whole process…

    If you dont know of this, then go and learn…, in the mean time keep your traps shut when anecdotal evidence is being shared by people who are genuinely sharing their experience, especially when the product is there for you to try yourself!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  • HJ

    No, I ignored this

    THAT KEEPS US ON EVEN GROUND – other wise it is just ‘ad hominem’

    because it does not follow from what you said.

    Ad hominem is against the person.

    You are assuming that “our simplest details” are the same, they are not, and this is where we keep asking you for details.

    You assume any attack on those details is an attack against the person, it is not, and this is why you do not understand the points being put to you.

    The area under discussion is the first area, not the second. Evaluating evidence is the crux of this discussion, and your misuse of terms like ad hominem doesn’t advance anything.

    If English isn’t your first language, it’s generally polite to point that out before we get to this point.

  • manni

    zombiwulF,

    thanks for that link, I stumbled across sprigmeires page in 99 when researching the ROCKEFELLERS, downloaded his ‘bloodlines’ page, read it and moved on…

    his info was merely another page to be correlated to studies done by others (on other facts) before and after him….

    HJ,

    Well done, I see you can dissect information and still miss the point… that is what your alluding to.?. now thats two uppercuts you owe yourself.

  • HJ

    Ohhh, you almost had it!

    Now see, that is the TRUE SCIENCE, that one can break things down to its most simplest form and explain it to that detail.

    Yes, yes! It explains all the details that make up results: the biases; the confounding factors; the relevance of the

    AND THEY DO NOT REPRESENT ‘TRUTH’ AUTHORITATIVELY… ONLY LAW AND GOD DO THAT!

    Oh, nevermind.

  • Manni,

    Of course we can’t disprove anything you’ve said.
    You haven’t said anything remotely verifiable.

  • manni

    HJ,

    Now see, that is the TRUE SCIENCE, that one can break things down to its most simplest form and explain it to that detail. THAT KEEPS US ON EVEN GROUND – other wise it is just ‘ad hominem’

    You can’t disprove a thing I’ve said, I’ve never said that Im more intelligent than just about everyone… no… just you!

  • HJ

    And the person who said: “Keep your ad hominem cr*p to yourself” is the same one that gives it out.

    It must be hard – when you’re obviously more intelligent than just about everyone you’ve ever met – it must be a challenge to reach down to their level and explain these simple things, eh manni?

  • Anneke

    @zombiwulf…

    I know, it’s great, isn’t it? Never been called an imbecile before, so there’s a first for everything isn’t there?

  • zombiwulF

    …not sure why I keep coming back to this thread – morbid fascination I guess ;]

  • zombiwulF

    http://www.eaec.org/expose/FritzSpringmeier1.htm

    “Neither is Fritz Springmeier your average Christian speaker and writer, most of his activity has been involved in “exposing” the Illuminati, bringing out “facts” about occult organizations, and for the last ten years or so, he has been very active in exposing the “mind control programs,” which for the last 100 years have been a pet project for many nation’s intelligence services.”

    LOL, LOL, ROFL

    keep ’em comin – this is entertaining stuff… the world’s been ending for quite a while now

    BTW – there’s no need to expose the ‘Illuminati’ just pop down to the theatre :-O

  • manni

    HJ,

    TOUCHE’

    Its what you call conspiracy ‘theory’… ITS REAL!

    Cheers,

  • HJ

    “But I will say this, WE DO NOT LIVE IN A PERFECT WORLD… and the bureaucracy that is binding our lives with draconian laws are being controlled and manipulated by FORCES that are not in the public eye. Its what you ‘intellectuals’ ineptly term ‘conspiracy theorists’…”

    Did you just say that conspiracy theorists bind our lives with draconian laws? Yes, you did.

    “STOP! PLEASE, JUST STOP! and read your own posts before you submit them.”

    Et tu, manni.

  • manni

    BastardSheep,

    Is that your real name… I wonder? STOP! PLEASE, JUST STOP! and read your own posts before you submit them. You obviously belong with HJ…

    To quote a friend, “what are you bunging on about” my blog is about anecdotal evidence and the reality of personal experience. What you read into any of my blogs is to your own ineptitudal defence, but please dont misquote me and think you can quote me in any degree. You obviously cant translate or read between the lines…

    I haven’t addressed science to any such degree, because if I did… you couldn’t keep up! What Im inferring to is the fact that ‘scientists’ DO NOT in any way control what comes into the market place… NEVER!

    Its obvious you are lost on this concept, so I wouldn’t even try to dissuade you from your delusion…

    But I will say this, WE DO NOT LIVE IN A PERFECT WORLD… and the bureaucracy that is binding our lives with draconian laws are being controlled and manipulated by FORCES that are not in the public eye. Its what you ‘intellectuals’ ineptly term ‘conspiracy theorists’…

    I have personally collected material since the late 80’s, material that correlate actual events that are not coincidental… I have studies in both dvd and literature format that correlate prophetic information to historical accounts since the beginning of time, Professor Walter Veith is one of a myriad of exponents who present these facts, David Asscherick, Ray DeCarlo, Barry Smith… to name a few.

    My first blog was addressed to Rachael and Rachael only… I was explaining to all who would be reading that though she may be entitled to her opionion, her opinion as a scientist does not represent the scientific fraternity, association or even community. AND THEY DO NOT REPRESENT ‘TRUTH’ AUTHORITATIVELY… ONLY LAW AND GOD DO THAT!

    TRUTH IS TRUTH, but to all of us its subjective and sadly in the business and scientific world its always exploited objectively.

    Keep your ad hominem cr*p to yourself… you obviously are too smart for me.

    Check out ‘bloodlines’ by Fritz Sprigmeire… see if what you are blubbering about really matters when this sort of information is out there for all to check out and research further for its placebo effect…

    cheers,

  • How can we have any idea what you are speaking about when you are saying a method of testing and evidence that inherently adds confirmation bias is better than one that tries to weed out confirmation bias by double and triple blind testing?

    How can we have any idea what you are speaking about when you are saying a method of testing and evidence that inherently adds the placebo effect in to that of the product being tested is better than one that tries to weed out the placebo effect?

    How can we have any idea what you are speaking about when you are saying a method of testing and evidence that inherently does not take in to account outside influences such as things people do before during and after taking the product is better than one that tries to weed out outside influences?

    How can we have any idea what you are speaking about when you are saying a method of testing and evidence that inherently uses immeasurable methods is better than one that tries to make everything measurable?

    How can we have any idea what you are speaking about when you are saying a method of testing and evidence that inherently tells the person what they should and shouldn’t get as side effects so they are actively looking for (and hence more easily noticing or falsely noticing) said effects is better than one that tries to weed out false positives or forced positives?

    For someone who claims to be much smarter than the average bear, you sure don’t have much of a clue, and every post you make just demonstrates that point better and better.

  • manni

    HJ,

    Your ignorance is becoming bothersome, please… give yourself an uppercut! and WAKE UP TO YOURSELF!

    Why you even bother to blog when its obvious you know nothing at all… how old are you 19-20

    Dont blog when you have no idea of what I speak about..

  • HJ

    manni – this is gold.

    “what you call ‘big pharma conspiracies’ is truly the reality”

    Or – It’s not a wacko fringe theory at all, because I believe it.

    Ohh, you’re a gem.

  • Manni,

    Science is the best method we have for determining what works and what doesn’t.

    It’s as simple as that.

    If these patches genuinely work as you say, then they would easily pass any test that science could throw at them.

    There’s no conspiracy to shut them out.

    I, like everyone else, would love it if they worked as you say. It would mean a whole new science had been discovered. What’s more exciting than that?

    Unfortunately, you offer no evidence. All you offer are anecdotes and conspiracy theories.

    Manni, the placebo effect is pretty well understood. You can wave a stick over some people, and if you tell them it’s a magic wand it’ll make them feel better.

    There’s a bunch of anecdotes for that too. It doesn’t mean the magic is real.

  • manni

    Rachael,

    You have been nothing but rude… ‘polite?’ Is it polite that you have arrogantly gone and set up a website denouncing the real (anecdotal) evidence / experience of people who have found something that has healed or given them relief from pain that ‘conventional-science’ with all its hooplas and its ridiculous patents and claims of healing ailments and diseases… HAS NOT!…

    That society over the years are now waking up to the reality that they have been the true guinea pigs and prescribed medication has only ever catered for the symptoms… never the cause.

    That causation of most diseases (if not all) in the human system is always due largely to dietary habits, animal consumption, lack of hydration, staying up late or working nightshifts, process foods, consuming fats, consuming blood of animals, alcohol, drugs, smoking etc…There are also the transmitted disease, and the inherited ones, plus emotional (which is somewhat of a placebo effect – but a fact of science)…

    The point Im making is that conventional science has not stood up to the test, and what you call ‘big pharma conspiracies’ is truly the reality of why your profession has a lot to answer for… by way of perpetuating (mutating) diseases… case in point – cancer –

    What your really saying is that because this guy has no background that can be checked, and certified by peer review… he can’t possibly be smarter than the rest of you.

    How can recipients of his products be making such claims other than the fact they are desperate and are clueless to true laboratory science. That all your studies are directed at finding ‘cures’ for diseases that are ‘symptomanic’ of debilitating natures such as autism etc… this non published science can in no way be true.

    For, that must mean I’m not that smart after all, (for I cant work it out) and that the degree I hold, isnt all that great after all. If a non scientist can find or create such technology without standard scientific criterias, well…. what am I doing here?

    Again I say, Im not attacking science per se… just those scientists that think they hold a monopoly on ‘truth’.

  • zombiwulF
  • @manni,

    I have asked you to abstain from abuse and criticise constructively when responding to people on this blog. If you continue to be abusive, as you have with Anneke, then I will be forced to request you refrain from commenting further.

    Regards

    Rachael

  • zombiwulF

    now let’s compare that to…

    USA STATISTIC: The PUBLIC CITIZENS RESEARCH GROUP reports that 95% of prescription drugs on the market today are not effective for the conditions they are prescribed according to the governments own standards. However, recent Chinese clinical studies have confirmed that Reflexology is 95% effective (based on 3 categories: very effective, effective, ineffective) in treating a broad spectrum of diseases. M.I.R. advocates using Full Spectrum Reflexology as a PREVENTIVE … not as a LAST RESORT to cure a chronic disease.

    From the Modern Institute of Reflexology (not the ancient one, pay attention!)

    >> I’m not sure who I would trust…. but I do remember the policy that Mao had regarding natural cures and why… guess who got the western medicine and which segment of the population got the ‘traditional’ one?

  • zombiwulF

    I agree, dear Bastard Sheep.

    Placebo does have a marked effect on perception of pain.

    Wikipedia; [Placebo Effect]
    Pain

    “Placebo analgesia is more likely to work the more severe the pain[122] It can be effective: one study found for postoperative pain following the extraction of the third molar, that a saline injected while telling the patient it was a powerful painkiller was as potent as a 6–8 mg dose of morphine.[123]”

    ….any other way I can be of service, fellow humans?

  • He’s asking us to spend our own hard earned money to fill his own pockets and try it in a way that doesn’t allow for differentiation between the affect of the product and the affect of other outside influencing factors so that if/when something happens, irrelivant of what actually caused it, the credit can go to the patch.

    I’m sure everyone except manni sees the problem with testing a product in this way. I’m sure everyone except manni understand that this is why studies are done with a large subject group, double blind, and with placebo’s. Manni has made it extremely clear he’s too afraid to stand up to any even remotely form of rigorous testing which is capable of actually seperating out the actual cause for a change from things that have nothing to do with it.

  • HJ

    “Why dont you try your post humourous little experiment and then blog on how it WORKED purely based on BELIEF!”

    Well, that’s the point, isn’t it..?

    Things you believe are working, can make a difference for you.

    Does this mean you understand the Placebo effect or not?

    It’s actually hard to tell from all that..

  • manni

    Anneke,

    You are not even worth the effort. Please dont regurgitate ignoramus… yours is the most imbecilic post yet. Why dont you try your post humourous little experiment and then blog on how it WORKED purely based on BELIEF!

    You are the complete imbecile for thinking you can get away with such a suggestion… wake up to yourself.

    Anecdotal evidence is the science of experience, its not based on a group study, but on a personal experience. When you hear of a good experience, be it a movie, restaurant, pub, band (aid), or any such thing, you dont go to test the experience out wiht any criterias – though you may have some subconsciously… you generally go in as a SCEPTIC!

    With no preconceived notion sometimes because the information you were given was vague yet enthusiastically told. So you walk in thinking I wonder… with these patches on my experience, I was told nothing of what they can do. I was actually given a spiel about a patch that makes you lose weight. ‘Do you know anybody that wants to lose weight, I’ve got these patches that, once you put it on, they help you lose weight, by burning calories and suppressing the bodies need to have sugar… blah blah.’ That was the spiel I was given on being introduced to the lifewave patches.

    I went to a meeting, they spoke about energy patches, pain relief patches… blah blah, but then the speakeer asked the room (only 4people turned up to this meeting room with chairs laid out expecting 100 or so) ‘does any one have any pain’… we all put our hands up. and we were all invited to the front (one at a time) and we all had our own varied experience with its healing and pain relief properties.

    So please, no more annete’s please. go try it out as the SCEPTIC you are. see for yourselves.

  • zombiwulF

    sorry, meant ANTI-enlightenment (good evening all)

  • zombiwulF

    hmmm, tends to come with the anit-enlightenment package, buggy software if you ask me.

    Another giveaway is the preachiness.

  • What, Veith is a creationist? Ooh, it just gets worse and worse! :p

  • zombiwulF

    You HAVE to be kidding me;

    “Formerly a strong proponent of the theory of evolution, Veith is now a firm believer in creationism and speaks internationally on this and other topics. He has undertaken extensive tours to Europe, Africa and North America, and has written a number of books on the above topics. He is the keynote speaker of Amazing Discoveries, a non-profit ministry based in British Columbia.” [Wikipedia}

    Creationism? Back to the Dark Ages?

  • zombiwulF

    ..sorry,my post was trucated…

    I wanted to ask could we have the *links* to the studies please?. Cite you sources & let them speak for themselves!

    * are they peer reviewed & done to the same standard as -real- medicine? or is it the good old moving goalpost & we’ll set our own rubbery standards that we see in paranormal ‘research’… hmmmm…

  • zombiwulF

    @manni,

    >> ‘check out… Professor Walter Veith – Amazing Discoveries… and really inform yourself about what is happening in the world around you. <

  • Anneke

    @Chris

    Ah yes, quoting the almighty Tim there Chris, good one.

    @manni,
    The only reason that the patches have ‘worked’ (if indeed you aren’t making it up) for you is your belief that it WOULD work. It is a Placebo (latin for “I shall please”), purely a psychological effect. The same thing would happen if I gave you a band-aid and told you it was a miracle patch to cure all your ailments.