Comments on: Health Care Complaints Commission to investigate the AVN.

By: Breaking: Australian antivax group slammed for “misleading and inaccurate information” | Bad Astronomy | News

Tue, 13 Jul 2010 08:34:10 +0000

[...] found it bizarre that Dorey would try to deny that (it was a classic “who me?” denial on her part). She’s trying to eat her cake and [...]

By: vaccines, the evil alien conspiracy « weird things

vaccines, the evil alien conspiracy « weird things — Sun, 20 Sep 2009 19:08:40 +0000

[...] This conspiracy theory’s presence on the AVN blog raises a big question. Does Meryl Dorey, the group’s lead quack, actually believe this stuff sans aliens, or did she just post something unflattering about vaccines because it has “vaccines,” “fear” and “swine flu” in the title? Considering the content of her other entries, it seems pretty reasonable that she’s ready and willing to fall for it. And there might be new conspiracy theories gracing her blog in the near future. After the public debate stirred by the death of a four week old child who contracted whooping cough and her commentary on the case, Australian skeptics have finally heard all they could hear and launched a formal complaint against the AVN. [...]

By: AndyD

AndyD — Fri, 04 Sep 2009 08:35:17 +0000

It seems my earlier reply of two days ago disappeared into moderation somewhere…
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There is an increasing concern about association between the exposure to mercury (via vaccination) and the development of neurodevelopmental disorders, especially autism and learning disabilities [3–8]. This has led to thimerosal being withdrawn from pediatric vaccines in the United States starting in 1999 (Centers for Disease Control and Prevention,1999)
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This does support my earlier position – the “concern” is what led to the withdrawal. Nothing there about it being withdrawn due to cumulative effects.
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You are falsely drawing an inference from two separate statements – one about the dosage and the other about the withdrawal.
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Now, I ask yet again – for the FIFTH time… Beyond the timing of the onset of symptoms, and given that millions and millions of vaccinated kids show no ill effects, what evidence is there that vaccines DO cause autism?

By: Grendel

Grendel — Thu, 03 Sep 2009 03:32:33 +0000

Bernice – I think you lack the background to understand the paper you cited – I’m calling your bluff on this one. I know this because you start by citing from the introduction which has a vague statement about ‘concern about association between exposure to mercury” etc. Now that doesn’t mean that the CDC is concerned only that they acknowledge that there is a concern (in the general community). That is – they were not concerned about a risk factor, they were concerned about perception.

The paper itself did not at any point examine any link between mercury and neurodevelopmental disorders. It looked solely at the interraction between mercury and one part of the immune response to determine if too much mercury acted as an immunosupressant.

I won’t comment otherwise on the paper, only to say that in my opinion it provides no support whatsoever to your arguement and the authors of the paper can state whatever they like but some of the very papers they cite in their references are contracdictory with their views.

You also seem keen to base your argement on one source alone – this is also not the way science is done. Even worse when you pick a paper like this one that is not even in the same field as the point you are argueing.

Just to be clear – you were citing from:

“Thimerosal induces TH2 responses via influencing cytokine secretion by human dendritic cells”
Anshu Agrawal1, Poonam Kaushal, Sudhanshu Agrawal, Sastry Gollapudi and Sudhir Gupta
Division of Basic and Clinical Immunology, University of California, Irvine, California, USA

This includes a contact – so perhaps you can follow up and ask the author whether their research supports your position.

1 Correspondence: Division of Basic and Clinical Immunology, Med. Sci I C-240, University of California, Irvine, CA 92697, USA. E-mail: aagrawal@uci.edu

By: Andy

Andy — Wed, 02 Sep 2009 01:47:59 +0000

"There is an increasing concern about association between the exposure to mercury (via vaccination) and the development of neurodevelopmental disorders, especially autism and learning disabilities [3–8]. This has led to thimerosal being withdrawn from pediatric vaccines in the United States starting in 1999" . That does support my conclusion that it was a marketing decision. Increasing concern about a risk is not the same as an identified increase in risk. . So, whilst it may say the quantity of mercury exceeded the guidelines, it does not say, as you suggest, that this is the reason thiomersal/thimerosal was removed. . Now, can I ask you for what the FIFTH time - Beyond the timing of the onset of symptoms, and given that millions and millions of vaccinated kids show no ill effects, what evidence is there that vaccines DO cause autism?

By: bernice l.

bernice l. — Tue, 01 Sep 2009 15:01:53 +0000

Grendel & Andy
To quote:
“Today, children receive more total number of vaccinations given
together during the first two years of life, leading to exposure to quantities of mercury that exceeds the safety guidelines through thimerosal in vaccines. There is an increasing concern about association between the exposure to mercury (via vaccination) and the development of neurodevelopmental disorders, especially autism and learning disabilities [3–8]. This has led to thimerosal being withdrawn from pediatric vaccines in the United States starting in 1999 (Centers for Disease Control and Prevention,1999). Nevertheless, thimerosal is still used in influenza, diphtheria toxoid and acellular pertussis, and tetanus toxoid vaccines. The majority of the studies are directed toward understanding the neurotoxic effect of thimerosal, and few studies deal with its effect on the immune system.”(Agrawal et al)
The authors state that childrens’s exposure to mercury from thiomersal exceeded the safety guidelines. Thiomersal was removed from infant vaccines due to cumulative toxicity from multiple vaccines which in terms of mercury exposure exceeded safety guidelines. This does not support your claim that thiomersal was only removed from the infant schedule due to it’s social and political toxicity.
Elliot, Children are being given the flu vaccine even though it is not on the schedule, believe it or not. Bizarre, I know. It would also appear that the saviour of mankind, the swine flu vaccine will be distributed in multi-dose vials; no prizes for guessing what the preservative will be. So for the children of those hysterical parents who rush out to be injected and have their children injected with the, more experimental than usual, swine flu vaccine, will be injected with a nice bolus of thiomersal as a bonus. It doesn’t matter about a bit of mercury, it’s an emergency!

By: vaccines, the evil alien conspiracy | weird things

vaccines, the evil alien conspiracy | weird things — Mon, 31 Aug 2009 16:02:40 +0000

By: AndyD

AndyD — Sun, 30 Aug 2009 08:02:22 +0000

“Why was the thiomersal removed if not for toxicity issues?”

Why did VHS win the video tape war over the arguably superior beta format?

Politics, marketing, conspiracy and a range of other pressures come to bear on what makes it into the marketplace. If mercury in vaccinations was causing lots of parents to forgo vaccination, the leaving it in serves little purpose.

It’s really not much different to putting a big red tick and the word “lite” on a food product that is neither low in fat nor good for you. It’s all about perception and getting the product accepted.

By: Elliot B

Elliot B — Fri, 28 Aug 2009 04:28:35 +0000

Bernice why are you still arguing about thimerosal in paediatric vaccines, its no-longer used in vaccines other than hepB (which isn’t given to kids), and the flu vaccine. Even then its only in trace amounts.
We’re not defending its use, because to put it simply, its not used any more.
I also hope you realise the irony of your last sentence

By: Grendel

Grendel — Thu, 27 Aug 2009 22:59:47 +0000

Bernice, I’m not going to bother arguing your motivations – only you really know them after all, however your final sentence is just bad science – as I suggested in my last comment I recommend you actually contact the authors and ask their opinion. They are in a much better position to outline to you whether their research supports your point of view.