Comments on: Vaccine fear campaign to be investigated

By: Chris

Chris — Tue, 16 Feb 2010 22:50:33 +0000

Depends on the population that is studied. If you want the details go to http://www.PubMed.gov and look up the vaccine studies yourself.

By: scep dick

scep dick — Tue, 16 Feb 2010 05:26:06 +0000

How did they come up with the ’80% effective’ figure? Is it effective in only 80% of the people or 80% effective in everyone?

By: scep dick

scep dick — Sun, 14 Feb 2010 09:52:52 +0000

Thanks for posting those stats – a very good point

By: Maggie

Maggie — Mon, 08 Feb 2010 12:44:26 +0000

@ scep dick, the vaccine is only about 80% effective, so even the vaccinated get it. The difference is those who are vaccinated, get shorter duration and less serious symptoms.
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As I posted to you last night, kids who get it when they are not vaccinated are much more likely to get pneumonia, and die. Please check this blog

In brief;
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Severe complications which occur almost exclusively in unvaccinated people include seizures and pneumonia. In babies under 6 months of age the symptoms can be severe or life threatening and include;

• Haemorrhage (bleeding)
• Apnoea (stopping breathing for long periods of time)
• Pneumonia
• Inflammation of the brain
• Convulsions and coma
• Permanent brain damage
• Death.

Note: this occurs almost exclusively in unvaccinated people.

Also the vax only lasts about 10 years so you need booster shots as an adult.

By: scep dick

scep dick — Mon, 08 Feb 2010 11:31:06 +0000

@Chris

“This is how more vaccinated persons get the disease than unvaccinated. Even if the infection rate was at 100%, there would still be more of the vaccinated getting the diseases because there are more of them!”

But isnt that point of having the vaccine is you dont get whooping cough??

By: Chris

Chris — Fri, 05 Feb 2010 03:35:25 +0000

No problems, as long as I remember to use the dots. I thought it would help with the herd immunity numbers.
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I just came over from Bad Astronomy where he notes that today would have been Dana McCaffery’s first birthday.
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Sigh.
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(It is actually a version of the Nirvana Fallacy that implies that since the DTaP vaccine (or any vaccine) is not 100% effective that it should not be used. Which is ironic when someone, like Dorey, in their next breath praises homeopathy, a form of pseudoscience that is based on magic, not science!)

By: Maggie

Maggie — Fri, 05 Feb 2010 03:08:14 +0000

@chris and others, I am working on fixing the default ‘no paragraphs’ (even when you use a hard return) in the comments box.
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It is something inbuilt into this wordpress template which I need to work around. In the meantime, add separating dots or I will do it for you in edit.
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Sorry about this. Hope to have it fixed soon.

By: Chris

Chris — Fri, 05 Feb 2010 02:36:26 +0000

Rats, I forgot the separating dots… try again:
Some herd immunity arithmetic:
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Take 1000 people (ignoring the infants under 2 months who cannot be vaccinated, or babies under a year who can only be partially vaccinated), if 5% refuse vaccines then the numbers are:
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950 vaccinated persons (assuming full schedule)
50 unvaccinated persons
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The pertussis vaccine is actually only 80% effective at worse, so the numbers are:
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760 protected persons
190 vaccinated but vulnerable persons
50 unvaccinated persons
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There is an outbreak and it gets spread to 20% of the population, then:
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760 protected persons without pertussis
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38 vaccinated persons get pertussis
152 vaccinated person who may still get pertussis
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10 unvaccinated persons get pertussis
40 unvaccinated persons who may still get pertussis.
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This is how more vaccinated persons get the disease than unvaccinated. Even if the infection rate was at 100%, there would still be more of the vaccinated getting the diseases because there are more of them!

By: Chris

Chris — Fri, 05 Feb 2010 02:34:08 +0000

The Nirvana Fallacy. The vaccine wears off, and is actually about 80% effective. Go to PubMed and plug in the terms “vaccine efficacy pertussis” into the search box, and then plow through the over 500 hits.
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Use PubMed to find the actual factual evidence that the DTaP vaccine is more dangerous than pertussis, and then come back to us with that. Though you should do that after you have gone to the library and learned a bit about biology, and some basic immunology from someone who does not believe conspiracies like the Illuminati (not the Steve Jackson game!) and 9/11 stuff, and other silliness as noted above.

I can guarantee that the 100% of the infants less than two months old (like Dana) who died from pertussis were not vaccinated. Also, babies who are under a year old have only been partially vaccinated because they have not completed the full series.
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I have a background in mathematics, so you can take my word on some basics on herd immunity arithmetic:
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Take 1000 people (ignoring the infants under 2 months who cannot be vaccinated, or babies under a year who can only be partially vaccinated), if 5% refuse vaccines then the numbers are:
.

950 vaccinated persons (assuming full schedule)
50 unvaccinated persons

The pertussis vaccine is actually only 80% effective at worse, so the numbers are:
.

760 protected persons
190 vaccinated but vulnerable persons
50 unvaccinated persons
.

There is an outbreak and it gets spread to 20% of the population, then:
.

760 protected persons without pertussis
.

38 vaccinated persons get pertussis
152 vaccinated person who may still get pertussis
.

10 unvaccinated persons get pertussis
40 unvaccinated persons who may still get pertussis.
.

This is how more vaccinated persons get the disease than unvaccinated. Even if the infection rate was at 100%, there would still be more of the vaccinated getting the diseases because there are more of them!

By: Skep dick

Skep dick — Fri, 05 Feb 2010 00:56:41 +0000

Hey does anyone have some stats on what percentage of children that contract whooping cough are vaccinated?