Comments on: Parents refuse chemotherapy for mud treatment. http://scepticsbook.com/2009/10/13/parents-refuse-chemotherapy-for-mud-treatment/ Contains Reason. Not Excuses. Thu, 10 May 2012 04:13:10 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: Maggie http://scepticsbook.com/2009/10/13/parents-refuse-chemotherapy-for-mud-treatment/comment-page-1/#comment-19975 Maggie Fri, 29 Oct 2010 02:42:35 +0000 http://scepticsbook.com/?p=2106#comment-19975 @Danny, . "I believe in making informed decisions and taking responsibility for oneself." . Sure, as long as the information you are getting in accurate and based on scientific evidence. Mud packs for cancer is not such thing. Also, when it comes to kids, they are relying on parents to make a decision for them. They do not deserve to suffer at the hands of some quack therapy. @Danny,
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“I believe in making informed decisions and taking responsibility for oneself.”
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Sure, as long as the information you are getting in accurate and based on scientific evidence. Mud packs for cancer is not such thing. Also, when it comes to kids, they are relying on parents to make a decision for them. They do not deserve to suffer at the hands of some quack therapy.

]]> By: Danny http://scepticsbook.com/2009/10/13/parents-refuse-chemotherapy-for-mud-treatment/comment-page-1/#comment-19973 Danny Fri, 29 Oct 2010 01:56:26 +0000 http://scepticsbook.com/?p=2106#comment-19973 How come no one talks about all the children that suffer undergoing chemotherapy and the operations that they endure and then die after the treatment didn't work? Does anyone ever question why pharmaceutical drugs are scheduled and that you have to get a prescription? Part of that answer is because most can kill and a lot more doctors than alternative therapists have killed patients. That's partly why doctors need to be registered and alternative therapists are not registered. Ultimately we should have freedom of choice. If you can show that you have researched all information and choices available, then a parent should have the freedom to say no to something as harsh as chemotherapy treatment, with all it's side effects. If they had chosen conventional treatment and extended her life for a few more months, at what extra cost would those months have come to? Unfortunately, a lot of decisions that we all make when we go to the doctor for serious illnesses, is based on fear. I believe in making informed decisions and taking responsibility for oneself. It can be hard when faced with something you don't understand. If one can, it's best to research the issue at hand thoroughly and try to source information that is not biased. All in all, we can only try our best. Remember to mostly eat fresh fruit and vegetables everyday as part of your diet and drink 2-4+ litres of water a day! How come no one talks about all the children that suffer undergoing chemotherapy and the operations that they endure and then die after the treatment didn’t work? Does anyone ever question why pharmaceutical drugs are scheduled and that you have to get a prescription? Part of that answer is because most can kill and a lot more doctors than alternative therapists have killed patients. That’s partly why doctors need to be registered and alternative therapists are not registered.
Ultimately we should have freedom of choice. If you can show that you have researched all information and choices available, then a parent should have the freedom to say no to something as harsh as chemotherapy treatment, with all it’s side effects. If they had chosen conventional treatment and extended her life for a few more months, at what extra cost would those months have come to? Unfortunately, a lot of decisions that we all make when we go to the doctor for serious illnesses, is based on fear. I believe in making informed decisions and taking responsibility for oneself. It can be hard when faced with something you don’t understand. If one can, it’s best to research the issue at hand thoroughly and try to source information that is not biased. All in all, we can only try our best.
Remember to mostly eat fresh fruit and vegetables everyday as part of your diet and drink 2-4+ litres of water a day!

]]> By: Whats the harm in Alternative Medicine? | Young Australian Skeptics http://scepticsbook.com/2009/10/13/parents-refuse-chemotherapy-for-mud-treatment/comment-page-1/#comment-10134 Whats the harm in Alternative Medicine? | Young Australian Skeptics Sun, 21 Feb 2010 01:38:01 +0000 http://scepticsbook.com/?p=2106#comment-10134 [...] Recently in Australia a child suffering from cancer was denied chemotherapy by her parents who instead chose to heal her with Mud Therapy. In this case, a 10 year old girl Tamar, was recently diagnosed with liver cancer which required immediate and aggressive chemotherapy. But her parents have shunned conventional treatment in favour of “mud” therapy. A team of oncologists at Princes Margaret Childrens’ Hospital advised that a seven week course of chemotherapy would give Tamar a 50?–?60% chance of survival. Despite the treating hospital pleading with the parents to consent to chemotherapy, eventually seeking the involvement of the WA legal system, the parents fled Australia to El Salvador. –The Skeptics’ Book of Pooh-??Pooh [...] [...] Recently in Australia a child suffering from cancer was denied chemotherapy by her parents who instead chose to heal her with Mud Therapy. In this case, a 10 year old girl Tamar, was recently diagnosed with liver cancer which required immediate and aggressive chemotherapy. But her parents have shunned conventional treatment in favour of “mud” therapy. A team of oncologists at Princes Margaret Childrens’ Hospital advised that a seven week course of chemotherapy would give Tamar a 50?–?60% chance of survival. Despite the treating hospital pleading with the parents to consent to chemotherapy, eventually seeking the involvement of the WA legal system, the parents fled Australia to El Salvador. –The Skeptics’ Book of Pooh-??Pooh [...]

]]> By: » Alternative medicine trumps science, resulting in tragedy. http://scepticsbook.com/2009/10/13/parents-refuse-chemotherapy-for-mud-treatment/comment-page-1/#comment-8082 » Alternative medicine trumps science, resulting in tragedy. Mon, 04 Jan 2010 06:30:36 +0000 http://scepticsbook.com/?p=2106#comment-8082 [...] readers of this blog might remember the tragic story of Tamar Stitt, the 10 year old girl whose parents smuggled her out of Australia following a court [...] [...] readers of this blog might remember the tragic story of Tamar Stitt, the 10 year old girl whose parents smuggled her out of Australia following a court [...]

]]> By: Catherine L Donaldson http://scepticsbook.com/2009/10/13/parents-refuse-chemotherapy-for-mud-treatment/comment-page-1/#comment-8075 Catherine L Donaldson Mon, 04 Jan 2010 03:42:07 +0000 http://scepticsbook.com/?p=2106#comment-8075 Such sad news after such tragic circumstances. Sincere condolences and thank you Tony & Maggie for the update. Such sad news after such tragic circumstances. Sincere condolences and thank you Tony & Maggie for the update.

]]> By: Tony Pitman http://scepticsbook.com/2009/10/13/parents-refuse-chemotherapy-for-mud-treatment/comment-page-1/#comment-8068 Tony Pitman Mon, 04 Jan 2010 01:02:28 +0000 http://scepticsbook.com/?p=2106#comment-8068 Hi everyone, I just wanted to let you know that unfortunately Tamar Stitt passed away on November 12th at a childrens' hospital in San Salvador. Her death was announced on "Today Tonight" last week and I spoke to the reporter to confirm the story. I've also covered this case several times on my radio show/podcast "Reality Check" http://realitycheckonline.blogspot.com/ A very sad and tragic story indeed. Tony Pitman Melbourne, Australia Hi everyone,

I just wanted to let you know that unfortunately Tamar Stitt passed away on November 12th at a childrens’ hospital in San Salvador. Her death was announced on “Today Tonight” last week and I spoke to the reporter to confirm the story. I’ve also covered this case several times on my radio show/podcast “Reality Check” http://realitycheckonline.blogspot.com/

A very sad and tragic story indeed.

Tony Pitman
Melbourne, Australia

]]> By: AndyD http://scepticsbook.com/2009/10/13/parents-refuse-chemotherapy-for-mud-treatment/comment-page-1/#comment-6233 AndyD Fri, 30 Oct 2009 10:26:28 +0000 http://scepticsbook.com/?p=2106#comment-6233 I'll note for now Kim that you switched from parasites to toxins as the underlying cause of cancer. Either way apparent "miracles" that occur without some fundamental statistics don't offer much guidance. . With odds of winning Lotto around 1 in 50 million there's virtually no chance of winning yet people do win all the time. Their individual processes of choosing their winning numbers, however, still have no value to the rest of us and many of them attribute their wins to vastly different things from prayer to psychic assistance to number systems to kissing frogs or whatever. In reality, coincidence just played in their favour on that day and no amount of frog kissing or prayer will ensure Lotto riches come your way. I’ll note for now Kim that you switched from parasites to toxins as the underlying cause of cancer. Either way apparent “miracles” that occur without some fundamental statistics don’t offer much guidance.
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With odds of winning Lotto around 1 in 50 million there’s virtually no chance of winning yet people do win all the time. Their individual processes of choosing their winning numbers, however, still have no value to the rest of us and many of them attribute their wins to vastly different things from prayer to psychic assistance to number systems to kissing frogs or whatever. In reality, coincidence just played in their favour on that day and no amount of frog kissing or prayer will ensure Lotto riches come your way.

]]> By: Kim Hogan http://scepticsbook.com/2009/10/13/parents-refuse-chemotherapy-for-mud-treatment/comment-page-1/#comment-6224 Kim Hogan Fri, 30 Oct 2009 02:49:38 +0000 http://scepticsbook.com/?p=2106#comment-6224 And I say why not to the lollipop! If she was on chemo, she probably wouldn't be able to suck it from the blisters she may get in her mouth... If you were a million dollars in debt and had a 50/50 chance of winning a million dollars, but had to stake your life on it - would you? I'd say the odds would suddenly look less favourable. As for Hulda Clark, if I remember right, she was pretty old. And if my mum followed her routine and her cancer went from being aggressive lymphoma to non existent in 28 days, why wouldn't I talk about it? I'd be surprised if you didn't yourself. Such an easy painless procedure is well worth the 28 days to see if it works for you. At the end of the day, your body has a great ability to heal itself and if all it needed was to get rid of some of the toxins already in it to let that process begin, it seems ludicrous you don't try that first before anything highly invasive that could kill you, nevermind the cancer itself. And I say why not to the lollipop! If she was on chemo, she probably wouldn’t be able to suck it from the blisters she may get in her mouth…

If you were a million dollars in debt and had a 50/50 chance of winning a million dollars, but had to stake your life on it – would you? I’d say the odds would suddenly look less favourable.

As for Hulda Clark, if I remember right, she was pretty old. And if my mum followed her routine and her cancer went from being aggressive lymphoma to non existent in 28 days, why wouldn’t I talk about it? I’d be surprised if you didn’t yourself. Such an easy painless procedure is well worth the 28 days to see if it works for you.

At the end of the day, your body has a great ability to heal itself and if all it needed was to get rid of some of the toxins already in it to let that process begin, it seems ludicrous you don’t try that first before anything highly invasive that could kill you, nevermind the cancer itself.

]]> By: AndyD http://scepticsbook.com/2009/10/13/parents-refuse-chemotherapy-for-mud-treatment/comment-page-1/#comment-6192 AndyD Thu, 29 Oct 2009 07:29:33 +0000 http://scepticsbook.com/?p=2106#comment-6192 <i>I’m not sure about the mud therapy, but I think it’s less cruel than subjecting a 10 year old to the pain and trauma of chemotherapy, which by the way, is also unproven as a cure for cancer as patients have as much chance of recovery as those who chose not to go through with the treatment.</i> . Well, mud therapy is obviously a weird and uncomfortable procedure so I offer lollipop therapy as a less cruel alternative. This involves giving the kid a lollipop any time she wants one. It's not a proven cure, of course, but much more fun for her while she lives. . Hulda Clark, who invented the whole "parasites cause all cancer" schtick - and who wrote at least three books claiming she could cure all cancers and all diseases - died recently..... from cancer. . As I responded to you on my own blog, those who survive alternative cures are the only ones who get to talk about them at dinner parties and we have no real stats on what percentage they represent. Would you even be commenting here if your mother hadn't survived? . If I had a million dollars in debt and had a 50/50 chance of winning a million dollars, I'm not sure I'd waste much time shopping around for better odds. . There are rumours, by the way, that Tamar Stitt's condition has deteriorated and is now in hospital undergoing some amount of chemo. If anyone has a good contact at Channel 7, maybe they could check this out. The mainstream media have all but ignored this story so it would be good to know what's going on. I’m not sure about the mud therapy, but I think it’s less cruel than subjecting a 10 year old to the pain and trauma of chemotherapy, which by the way, is also unproven as a cure for cancer as patients have as much chance of recovery as those who chose not to go through with the treatment.
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Well, mud therapy is obviously a weird and uncomfortable procedure so I offer lollipop therapy as a less cruel alternative. This involves giving the kid a lollipop any time she wants one. It’s not a proven cure, of course, but much more fun for her while she lives.
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Hulda Clark, who invented the whole “parasites cause all cancer” schtick – and who wrote at least three books claiming she could cure all cancers and all diseases – died recently….. from cancer.
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As I responded to you on my own blog, those who survive alternative cures are the only ones who get to talk about them at dinner parties and we have no real stats on what percentage they represent. Would you even be commenting here if your mother hadn’t survived?
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If I had a million dollars in debt and had a 50/50 chance of winning a million dollars, I’m not sure I’d waste much time shopping around for better odds.
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There are rumours, by the way, that Tamar Stitt’s condition has deteriorated and is now in hospital undergoing some amount of chemo. If anyone has a good contact at Channel 7, maybe they could check this out. The mainstream media have all but ignored this story so it would be good to know what’s going on.

]]> By: Kim Hogan http://scepticsbook.com/2009/10/13/parents-refuse-chemotherapy-for-mud-treatment/comment-page-1/#comment-6170 Kim Hogan Wed, 28 Oct 2009 15:35:37 +0000 http://scepticsbook.com/?p=2106#comment-6170 I'm not sure about the mud therapy, but I think it's less cruel than subjecting a 10 year old to the pain and trauma of chemotherapy, which by the way, is also unproven as a cure for cancer as patients have as much chance of recovery as those who chose not to go through with the treatment. After nearly 30 years of chemotherapy treatment for cancer, it has very little positive results to show for itself. My mother was diagnosed with aggressive lymphoma and told to undergo full on chemotherapy sessions shortly after an operation. The doctors applied a great amount of pressure to try and get her to agree, practically threatening not to treat her if she chose not to go ahead with it and got worse. She saw that the patients who were coming out of chemotherapy were looking more ghaunt and dead than they were before and thankfully had the presence of mind to say no to the doctors. Instead, she found a simple herbal detox and parasite cleansing routine which she followed for a month and when she went back to the hospital, they couldn't find any cancer at all, not even in remission. Yet they had the initial biopsy they took which shows the aggressive cancer cells. Moral of the story, not everything a doctor tells you is right or true. And in the end, if you only have a 50-50 chance at survival, it's well worth looking into other options. I’m not sure about the mud therapy, but I think it’s less cruel than subjecting a 10 year old to the pain and trauma of chemotherapy, which by the way, is also unproven as a cure for cancer as patients have as much chance of recovery as those who chose not to go through with the treatment. After nearly 30 years of chemotherapy treatment for cancer, it has very little positive results to show for itself.

My mother was diagnosed with aggressive lymphoma and told to undergo full on chemotherapy sessions shortly after an operation. The doctors applied a great amount of pressure to try and get her to agree, practically threatening not to treat her if she chose not to go ahead with it and got worse. She saw that the patients who were coming out of chemotherapy were looking more ghaunt and dead than they were before and thankfully had the presence of mind to say no to the doctors. Instead, she found a simple herbal detox and parasite cleansing routine which she followed for a month and when she went back to the hospital, they couldn’t find any cancer at all, not even in remission. Yet they had the initial biopsy they took which shows the aggressive cancer cells.

Moral of the story, not everything a doctor tells you is right or true. And in the end, if you only have a 50-50 chance at survival, it’s well worth looking into other options.

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