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	<title>Comments on: Have we seen the last of the AVN?</title>
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	<link>http://scepticsbook.com/2010/02/07/have-we-seen-the-last-of-the-avn/</link>
	<description>Contains Reason. Not Excuses.</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Fri, 30 Jul 2010 04:02:01 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: &#187; The AVN knocked back from advertising in mums &#38; babies publication</title>
		<link>http://scepticsbook.com/2010/02/07/have-we-seen-the-last-of-the-avn/comment-page-1/#comment-11885</link>
		<dc:creator>&#187; The AVN knocked back from advertising in mums &#38; babies publication</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 02 Apr 2010 05:12:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scepticsbook.com/?p=2885#comment-11885</guid>
		<description>[...] question here is how the AVN came to have a spare $8000, after their recent donation drive initiated apparently to keep them from going under. Meryl apparently needed the cash to cover [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] question here is how the AVN came to have a spare $8000, after their recent donation drive initiated apparently to keep them from going under. Meryl apparently needed the cash to cover [...]</p>
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		<title>By: &#187; Wakefield resigns in disgrace as the AVN entices with booze</title>
		<link>http://scepticsbook.com/2010/02/07/have-we-seen-the-last-of-the-avn/comment-page-1/#comment-10064</link>
		<dc:creator>&#187; Wakefield resigns in disgrace as the AVN entices with booze</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 19 Feb 2010 08:55:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scepticsbook.com/?p=2885#comment-10064</guid>
		<description>[...] who pledges $1000 (2). One wonders how far $1000 will get them, when they were asking for &#8220;..a benefactor or series of benefactors come forward to establish a fund that would guarantee the AV...”, but who said there was method in their [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] who pledges $1000 (2). One wonders how far $1000 will get them, when they were asking for &#8220;..a benefactor or series of benefactors come forward to establish a fund that would guarantee the AV&#8230;”, but who said there was method in their [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Chris</title>
		<link>http://scepticsbook.com/2010/02/07/have-we-seen-the-last-of-the-avn/comment-page-1/#comment-9997</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 18 Feb 2010 01:54:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scepticsbook.com/?p=2885#comment-9997</guid>
		<description>Obamosawin may have training in tradional native peoples historical medicines, no one should take his ideas on science and real medicine seriously.  I found a report written by him (there is a reason he has not been published in peer reviewed journals for over thirty years).  I noticed that the National Aboriginal Health Organization is not really part of Health Canada, but does get support from Health Canada.  From http://www.naho.ca/english/about.php ... 
.&lt;blockquote&gt;NAHO receives core funding from Health Canada to undertake knowledge-based activities, including education, research and knowledge dissemination. Health Canada exerts no influence over the content of NAHO materials nor are NAHO materials attributable, in whole or in part, to Health Canada. No corporate body or commercial entity has any influence over the contents of NAHO publications.&lt;/blockquote&gt;
.
So I found a more recent paper by Raymond Obomsawin, Phd (not a medical doctor) here:
http://www.naho.ca/english/guestSpeaker/Raymond%20Obomsawin%20report.pdf
.
Where he expounds on the glory of &lt;a href=&quot;http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Royal_Rife&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Royal Rife&lt;/a&gt; and his microscope.
.
&lt;blockquote&gt;However, Rife&#039;s invention with its 14 separate
crystal quartz lenses and prisms, was able to bend and to polarize light in such a way that a specimen could be illuminated by extremely narrow portions of the spectra, and even by a single light frequency.&lt;/blockquote&gt;
.
The guy is a loon.  
.
Kindly stick to real medical researchers and PubMed for real information on vaccines.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Obamosawin may have training in tradional native peoples historical medicines, no one should take his ideas on science and real medicine seriously.  I found a report written by him (there is a reason he has not been published in peer reviewed journals for over thirty years).  I noticed that the National Aboriginal Health Organization is not really part of Health Canada, but does get support from Health Canada.  From <a href="http://www.naho.ca/english/about.php" rel="nofollow">http://www.naho.ca/english/about.php</a> &#8230;<br />
.<br />
<blockquote>NAHO receives core funding from Health Canada to undertake knowledge-based activities, including education, research and knowledge dissemination. Health Canada exerts no influence over the content of NAHO materials nor are NAHO materials attributable, in whole or in part, to Health Canada. No corporate body or commercial entity has any influence over the contents of NAHO publications.</p></blockquote>
<p>.<br />
So I found a more recent paper by Raymond Obomsawin, Phd (not a medical doctor) here:<br />
<a href="http://www.naho.ca/english/guestSpeaker/Raymond%20Obomsawin%20report.pdf" rel="nofollow">http://www.naho.ca/english/guestSpeaker/Raymond%20Obomsawin%20report.pdf</a><br />
.<br />
Where he expounds on the glory of <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Royal_Rife" rel="nofollow">Royal Rife</a> and his microscope.<br />
.</p>
<blockquote><p>However, Rife&#8217;s invention with its 14 separate<br />
crystal quartz lenses and prisms, was able to bend and to polarize light in such a way that a specimen could be illuminated by extremely narrow portions of the spectra, and even by a single light frequency.</p></blockquote>
<p>.<br />
The guy is a loon.<br />
.<br />
Kindly stick to real medical researchers and PubMed for real information on vaccines.</p>
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		<title>By: Chris</title>
		<link>http://scepticsbook.com/2010/02/07/have-we-seen-the-last-of-the-avn/comment-page-1/#comment-9996</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 18 Feb 2010 01:07:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scepticsbook.com/?p=2885#comment-9996</guid>
		<description>But he can mung the statistics by surrounding them with nonsensical comparisons.  The most blatant is comparing to Scarlet Fever, which is a bacterial infection for which there is no vaccine, but which responds well to antibiotics.  

There seem to be lies by omission, though I do not have the time nor inclination to load that large file and go into it bit by bit. Mostly what I see is that if some vaccines are not very effective (which is true for the tuberculous vaccine, which was not used in the USA), that all vaccines are useless.  Except data actually show that herd immunity is important.

I found a mention of the guy here:
http://www.pathguy.com/antiimmu.htm  

I did a search on him in PubMed and found exactly one paper:
Can Nurse. 1978 Oct;74(9):7.
A statement on Indian health.
Obomsawin R.

Unfortunately, that is all.  I would say since his last journal paper was over thirty years ago, that he has not been actually been active in real research for a long time.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>But he can mung the statistics by surrounding them with nonsensical comparisons.  The most blatant is comparing to Scarlet Fever, which is a bacterial infection for which there is no vaccine, but which responds well to antibiotics.  </p>
<p>There seem to be lies by omission, though I do not have the time nor inclination to load that large file and go into it bit by bit. Mostly what I see is that if some vaccines are not very effective (which is true for the tuberculous vaccine, which was not used in the USA), that all vaccines are useless.  Except data actually show that herd immunity is important.</p>
<p>I found a mention of the guy here:<br />
<a href="http://www.pathguy.com/antiimmu.htm" rel="nofollow">http://www.pathguy.com/antiimmu.htm</a>  </p>
<p>I did a search on him in PubMed and found exactly one paper:<br />
Can Nurse. 1978 Oct;74(9):7.<br />
A statement on Indian health.<br />
Obomsawin R.</p>
<p>Unfortunately, that is all.  I would say since his last journal paper was over thirty years ago, that he has not been actually been active in real research for a long time.</p>
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		<title>By: &#187; Media coverage of the impending collapse of the AVN</title>
		<link>http://scepticsbook.com/2010/02/07/have-we-seen-the-last-of-the-avn/comment-page-1/#comment-9969</link>
		<dc:creator>&#187; Media coverage of the impending collapse of the AVN</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Feb 2010 07:48:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scepticsbook.com/?p=2885#comment-9969</guid>
		<description>[...] week, Meryl Dorey, President of the AVN announced the group would close it&#8217;s doors &#8220;on or near February 28th&#8221; citing monetary issues as the primary reason. This week, [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] week, Meryl Dorey, President of the AVN announced the group would close it&#8217;s doors &#8220;on or near February 28th&#8221; citing monetary issues as the primary reason. This week, [...]</p>
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		<title>By: scep dick</title>
		<link>http://scepticsbook.com/2010/02/07/have-we-seen-the-last-of-the-avn/comment-page-1/#comment-9956</link>
		<dc:creator>scep dick</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Feb 2010 01:15:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scepticsbook.com/?p=2885#comment-9956</guid>
		<description>Arent the facts he presents graphically just that - facts. He cant make up those figures and Im assuming we can all go do the same and plot them out?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Arent the facts he presents graphically just that &#8211; facts. He cant make up those figures and Im assuming we can all go do the same and plot them out?</p>
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		<title>By: Maggie</title>
		<link>http://scepticsbook.com/2010/02/07/have-we-seen-the-last-of-the-avn/comment-page-1/#comment-9942</link>
		<dc:creator>Maggie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Feb 2010 13:11:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scepticsbook.com/?p=2885#comment-9942</guid>
		<description>@scepdick, this guy is an antivaxer. Not a reputable source.
.

From &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.whale.to/a/obomsawin_b1.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;here&lt;/a&gt;. Raymond Obomsawin was born in the United States on August 16, 1950 and holds dual US and Canadian citizenship. He married Marie-Louise in August of 1976, and they have three, vibrant children: Sunrise, Sunbeam and Sundown. These children--two are still in their teens, and one is twenty-one--have never received the prescribed regimen of childhood vaccines, and due to a healthful lifestyle have exhibited total immunity to the diseases that are common to the childhood years. (Time and again they&#039;ve been physically exposed to those ill from some of these very diseases.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@scepdick, this guy is an antivaxer. Not a reputable source.<br />
.</p>
<p>From <a href="http://www.whale.to/a/obomsawin_b1.html" rel="nofollow">here</a>. Raymond Obomsawin was born in the United States on August 16, 1950 and holds dual US and Canadian citizenship. He married Marie-Louise in August of 1976, and they have three, vibrant children: Sunrise, Sunbeam and Sundown. These children&#8211;two are still in their teens, and one is twenty-one&#8211;have never received the prescribed regimen of childhood vaccines, and due to a healthful lifestyle have exhibited total immunity to the diseases that are common to the childhood years. (Time and again they&#8217;ve been physically exposed to those ill from some of these very diseases.)</p>
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		<title>By: scep dick</title>
		<link>http://scepticsbook.com/2010/02/07/have-we-seen-the-last-of-the-avn/comment-page-1/#comment-9937</link>
		<dc:creator>scep dick</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Feb 2010 11:34:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scepticsbook.com/?p=2885#comment-9937</guid>
		<description>http://genesgreenbook.com/resources/Natural_Infectious_Disease_Declines_Immunization_Effectiveness.pdf

I have just seen these charts put together. To me this seems like hard evidence from reputable sources that vaccinations dont work. Whats the explanation?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="http://genesgreenbook.com/resources/Natural_Infectious_Disease_Declines_Immunization_Effectiveness.pdf" rel="nofollow">http://genesgreenbook.com/resources/Natural_Infectious_Disease_Declines_Immunization_Effectiveness.pdf</a></p>
<p>I have just seen these charts put together. To me this seems like hard evidence from reputable sources that vaccinations dont work. Whats the explanation?</p>
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		<title>By: scep dick</title>
		<link>http://scepticsbook.com/2010/02/07/have-we-seen-the-last-of-the-avn/comment-page-1/#comment-9874</link>
		<dc:creator>scep dick</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 15 Feb 2010 00:06:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scepticsbook.com/?p=2885#comment-9874</guid>
		<description>I still cant say that Ive seen anything that&#039;s been overly convincing.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I still cant say that Ive seen anything that&#8217;s been overly convincing.</p>
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		<title>By: Sean the Blogonaut</title>
		<link>http://scepticsbook.com/2010/02/07/have-we-seen-the-last-of-the-avn/comment-page-1/#comment-9750</link>
		<dc:creator>Sean the Blogonaut</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Feb 2010 23:48:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://scepticsbook.com/?p=2885#comment-9750</guid>
		<description>@scepdick 

&lt;I&gt;I was simply referring to the crusading that the skeptics do – seems almost religious sometimes.&lt;/I&gt;
.

Well when you start framing the debate with religious language like crusading its no wonder you interpret it that way :). In Australia the only two events that have received a good level of skeptical activism are the exposing of the AVN and more recently the 1023 campaign.  The level of these campaigns are commensurate with the level of danger posed by their targets.  I don&#039;t think it helps you to put this in the framework of religious language, not if you want to evaluate it objectively.  No offense taken :) 

.



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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@scepdick </p>
<p><i>I was simply referring to the crusading that the skeptics do – seems almost religious sometimes.</i><br />
.</p>
<p>Well when you start framing the debate with religious language like crusading its no wonder you interpret it that way <img src='http://scepticsbook.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> . In Australia the only two events that have received a good level of skeptical activism are the exposing of the AVN and more recently the 1023 campaign.  The level of these campaigns are commensurate with the level of danger posed by their targets.  I don&#8217;t think it helps you to put this in the framework of religious language, not if you want to evaluate it objectively.  No offense taken <img src='http://scepticsbook.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' />  </p>
<p>.</p>
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