Whilst discussing the Streisand effect, following the threat of legal action from LBC, he showed a screen shot of this little ‘ol blog.

Thanks Ben for putting tipping your hat to the pooh-pooh!

See the full clip on YouTube here. We appear at 02:48 minutes.

“[The comments] do not address the debate about the use of MMR and that is the reason for taking the comments off Jeni’s website,” Common said.

Jeni invited people to join the debate about MMR following her controversial broadcast on January 7 th where she spouted misinformation about MMR, autism and vaccinations in general. However, comments posted disagreeing with her stance, no matter how polite, were quickly removed from her blog.

Some of the comments left on the journalism.co.uk blog make this point.

Andy Says:

February 11th, 2009 at 8:08 pm

Whilst I would not approve of any threatening or abusive comments, the vast majority left on Jeni’s blog were simple and robust criticism of her stance and behaviour. Plus the subsequent behaviour of LBC.

As so many people did take the time to explain quite carefully what was wrong, I have reposted these blogs and comments on my own site. Make your own mind up.

Perhaps Jeni, or her agent Robert common forgot about the internet cache, but Andy from Quackometer.net did not. He has posted all the comments, as they originally appeared for us all to see.

One thing that surprised many people posting on this story, was Jeni’s somewhat hypocritical cry that these comments were abusive personal attacks. This is a bit rich when you consider she herself yelled over the top of Yasmin, now identified as an NHS nurse, then later referred to her as “vicious”.

The Biologista Says:

February 11th, 2009 at 9:26 pm

1. Jeni herself described at least one of her pro-MMR callers “vicious” and has been very dismissive of all of her critics. Regardless of the evidence they produced or how mannerly they were, their concerns were regarded as “sarcasm”.

David Jones Says:

February 11th, 2009 at 9:42 pm

Most of the messages have been saved and are on the Internet for all to see. None were personally abusive. On the other hand, Barnett described a perfectly reasonable and concerned nurse who called into the show as ‘vicious’, which is simply untrue. The transcripts are available, read them for yourself, see who’s indulging in personal abuse.

This is precisely the point Jeni. You can put all the spin on it you like but the facts remain. The audio, the transcript and the blog comments as they originally appeared are available for us all to see.

In the meantime, Ben has issued a personal plea on his blog to not send abusive emails to Jeni following a phone call from the programme director of LBC.

As the saying goes, if you give people enough rope….

Reports drifting around the internet say she has now deleted derogatory comments from her blog. Also the entire debacle has recently caught the attention of Mr Stephen Fry who twittered about the fuss this morning.

IMHO this chap needs out support http://tinyurl.com/btokam Vaccination scares are SO bloody irresponsible, espesh this sort. Kids have died.

These comments also from Stephen appear on Ben Goldacre’s Bad Science site.

The fatuity of the Jeni Barnett woman’s manner – her blend of self-righteousness and stupidity, her simply quite staggering inability to grasp, pursue or appreciate a sequence of logical steps – all these are signature characteristics of Britain these days. The lamentable truth is that most of the population wouldn’t really understand why we get so angry at this assault on reason, logic and sense. But we have to keep hammering away at these people and their superstitious inanities. We have to. Well done you and well done all you supporting. I’ve tweeted this site to my followers. I hope they all do their best to support you. Publish and be damned. We’ll fight them and fight them and fight them in the name of empricism, reason, double blind random testing and all that matters.
Love

Stephen xxx

Plus a new article appears in the Times today.

I don’t have time to blog this properly now, but fortunately my fellow-bloggers already have.

Please visit Podblack to see the most recent happenings, Quackometer and Holford watch for a concise summary of everything that has happened so far.

Enjoy, or get really angry, as I did. You have been warned.

JB: Amanda, talk to me.

Amanda: Hello! Um, I’ve got eight children,

JB: Mazel-tov! Are you still sane?

Amanda: No! Anyway, and I started off, young, about twenty – did all the things you were supposed to do and presented my daughter and she had all her vaccinations and my second daughter had all her vaccinations. Then my son was born and he reacted very badly to the first, and what I think then was the double or triple jab.

Um, so he then didn’t have any more, although he did then have the MMR, well, he did have some more, but he didn’t have any more Whooping Cough. He then had the MMR, um… and then when he was three he was diagnosed with autism. And so I got quite involved in vaccines, because I wasn’t sure, um, my paediatrician was quite sure that it was the cause of the autism, but I mean, I didn’t know.

And from then on, I decided not to have my children vaccinated – I just thought ‘better be on the safe side’ – I mean, my paediatrician thought it was great, my GPs weren’t; they were always very unhappy that I didn’t have them vaccinated.
TIMESTAMP: 1.00

JB: Why, why though, that the GPs won’t take on what the paediatrician did??

Amanda: I don’t know! I mean, my paediatrician is great, she’s a very holistic paediatrician – she was the of big chief consultants at a hospital down on the south coast, so she’s a very good paediatrician, but she very much believed in … in just sort of holistically looking after the child. Um, she didn’t like giving drugs for things if you didn’t need it.

JB: But you know, people do throw ‘guilt things’, at you, don’t they? They must say to you ‘all right, for you, Amanda’.

Amanda: Um…

JB: How do you cope with that?

Amanda: Well, yeah, they probably do, um, … the main thing I found is that my eldest who has everything, she actually had a really bad case of Whooping Cough, about two years ago. And we did get quite a lot of things thrown at us then but she was the one who had been vaccinated. None of my other children picked it up.
TIMESTAMP: 2.00

JB: Now what would you say – I mean, it’s not my job to say to people ‘don’t do it’, it’s not my job to do any of that. But you’re allowed to have your say. What would you say to people as a mum of eight little lives that you’re deeply responsible for? What would you say to people who are in two minds about it?

Amanda: Um. Well, I would never recommend having children vaccinated, and people think I’m very strange. But all my younger children who have never been vaccinated have been very, very healthy. Um, the youngest had measles, um, now three months ago. And he was fine, he wasn’t very well for about a week, ten days – and then he was fine, and none of my others picked it up. So, I think they must have a certain amount of natural immunity – and I’m far, far happier for them to have developed that ‘natural immunity’ – than to be constantly filled with artificial substances.

JB: Well, thank you so much, my darling, that was Amanda in Hayword’s Heath.

“I was just listening to your show, if people took the time to look at what’s in vaccines, they would think twice about giving them to their children. As well as not being a hundred percent effective, they also have cancer-causing agents.
Timestamp: 3.00
“Also a child’s immune system takes approximately two to three months to fully get up and running from birth. Also, if we look at the countries that have the highest population vaccinated, you will notice that they have the most allergies. I’m not totally against immunisations, but we should be giving children at least a year to develop their own immune system to deal with the onslaught.”

I didn’t say that – I wish you’d given me your name? There’s a third way, says somebody else who’s nameless: “Why don’t we allow children to have the jabs individually?” Why not? It’s half-past two!

END 3.35

[STATION IDENTIFICATION – ADVERT FOR HER NEXT GUEST]

RESTARTS 4.00

I’ve just got one or two announcements, and there are many of you who want to talk about this measles thing – I get so impassioned about it, because I think it’s about freedom – and I think that self responsibility for your body and children and health is top of the list! You know, early to bed, early to rise, makes you HEALTHY, wealthy and wise! The four-square of life: health, wealth, love, and perfect surface expression!

Where do you go from there? About being healthy – and YOU have to make a decision, don’t you, on behalf of your children! It’s the WORST decision you’ll have to make – should you / shouldn’t you! It’s alright when you’re making it for yourself – but I want you to tell me, why you think we have to have this measles jab and why I’ve got several things I’m going to read out in a minute, why you think it’s not necessary!

And I’ll be talking to a doctor in a moment, and somebody who is pro-jabs, I just have to make two announcements…

[the audience for Jeni Barnett advert]

You may not be aware that Ben has taken the audio off his site due to legal threats relating to copyright. As Ben points out below, being this is such a controversial topic (and seriously, except for people like Jeni Barnett and “Andy Wakefield” it needn’t be) isn’t it important to debate the issues, openly and publicly? This is not so easy to do without access to the original audio.

Never fear however, bloggers of the world united today, including myself, the Lay Scientist and WikiLeaks where you can find the mp3, linked to a dozen or so servers across the world. Also just added is a torrent.

Here’s what Ben had to say. Unlike Ms Barnett (or ANNE COULTER – see below), he is polite, succinct and informed.

9. At February 6, 2009 12:12 AM Ben Goldacre wrote:

Hi there,

I feel very strongly that patients should be free to decline medical treatment if they wish. Ideally if it was a serious medical problem, and you felt able to listen, a doctor would have made a good attempt to explain what is known about the risks and benefits of each option.

I am however concerned – along with a great many others – that your recent hour-long campaigning broadcast against the MMR vaccine was thoughtless, misleading, ill-informed, and irresponsible.

I also think it’s enormously inappropriate, I’m afraid, that you describe a polite and informed nurse as “vicious” on your website, in your previous blog post, simply because she called into your show and disagreed with you. She does not have your wealth, she is not a TV or radio presenter, she does not have your platform, and she does not have your legal team. She was clearly not “vicious”, as anybody listening to the audio would be able to tell for themselves. I believe you owe this listener an apology.

Most of all I think it’s regrettable that your company, LBC and Global Audio, have now used legal threats to make me take down the audio excerpt in question, so that it can no longer freely be heard. I have spent a great deal of my time, both writing, and in other activities, in supporting free and open access for the public to medical and scientific information and literature. Yours was a broadcast on the public airwaves, and a review of it, and discussion about it, was important and informative.

If you really felt that access to information was important, and that debates were worth having, I think you would encourage your legal team to reconsider, and simply give permission for this clip to be made freely available, in the public domain, in full, as it was broadcast, so that it can be widely heard, understood, and discussed.

all the best,

Ben Goldacre
www.badscience.net

And just for amusement value, see if you can spot whether the following diatribe comes from a supporter or critic of Jeni. Let’s see; misuse of the caps lock key, check; incorrect use of punctuation, check; lack of spaces after full stops, check; lack of paragraphs, check; an inability to spell, check.

32. At February 5, 2009 11:47 PM anne coulter wrote:

HI JENI, PLEASE DO NOT FEEL GUILTY FOR NOT HAVING HAD YOUR CHILD VACCINATED WITH THE MMR/MR VACCINE. WE LOST CHRISTOPHER OUR ONLY SON TEN DAYS AFTER HIS VACCINATION IN 1994.HE WAS A VERY HEALTHY FIFTEEN YEAR OLD WITH NO MEDICAL PROBLEMS AT ALL.THERE WAS NO HISTORY OF SEIZURES OF ANY NATURE IN THE FAMILY.AT THE SAME TIME ANOTHER BOY IN CHRISTOPHERS CLASS IN SCHOOL ALSO SUFFERED A SEVERE SEIZURE BOTH VACCINES WERE OF THE SAME BATCH NUMBER. WE HAVE DONE EVERYTHING POSSIBLE TO ESTABLISH THE TRUTH.SADLY THE TRUTH IS ALWAYS COVERED UP WHEN THESE THINGS HAPPEN.THERE ARE NEVER ANY ANSWERS AVAILABLE. WE NOW KNOW WE PAID THE ULTIMATE PRICE BY HAVING OUR SON VACCINATED WE HAVE NO DOUBT HE WOULD BE ALIVE TODAY IF WE HAD REFUSED IT.WE WOULD VERY MUCH LIKE CLOSEURE AND I BELIEVE WE ARE INTITLED TO THIS INFORMATION.THE ONLY WAY WE ARE GOING TO GET CLOSEURE IS TO HAVE A JUDICAL REVIEW OF THE INQUEST INTO CHRISTOPHERS DEATH. I HAVE KEPT IN TOUCH WITH JACKIE FOR A NUMBER OF YEARS SHE HAS ALWAYS GIVEN US A GREAT DEAL OF SUPPORT.PLEASE FEEL FREE TO SPEAK TO JACKIE ABOUT CHRISTOPHER. ANNE COULTER

Post script: Please join the Defend Ben Goldacre from LBC Facebook group.

During a rant on her LBC radio show, she spat misinformation and conspiracy theories about the safety of MMR and vaccination. In addition to shouting over the top of nurses and GPs who had called in to politely correct her. But like Jenny McCarthy she has a “Mommy” instinct, so she obviously knows best. No-one can compete with that, least of all science.

When Ben Goldacre was sent a clip of her rant, he did the responsible thing and posted it to his blog so that millions of people could hear the irrational, ill-informed, potentially damaging opinions for themselves.

And believe me, you will not believe how bad this is until you hear it.

The response from LBC was to threaten Ben with legal action for a breach of copyright. This threat has backfired in a major way for LBC. By threatening to slap Ben with a lawsuit unless he remove the offending material (which he subsequently has), they have effectively started a huge Streisand effect which is currently resonating across the globe.

“To all of you Bad scientists, who are SO angry with me, good luck with your research. Should you fall ill I will attend you as best I can with my motherly love. Should I fall ill, as a non paid up member of your club, will you administer to me? And should I refuse your drugs then what?” Jeni Barnett

The mp3 appeared on Wikileaks sometime this morning with 13 servers hosting it from all over the world. People have already begun blogging it, with links to the Wiki page.

My good friend Res posted the entire 40 minutes (the excerpt originally on Ben’s blog) on my YouTube channel. Several people have commented that transcribing the segment is the best way to get around the legal red tape. Time will tell if this is the case, however…

Click here to hear the 40 min rant on YouTube

…I hardly think it matters anymore, following pleas for help on his blog and twitter, Ben has mobilised an army and this thing has gone viral.

As a example of Jeni’s complete lack of scientific understanding she said this gem during her show; “Have you had the flu jab? But still you’ve got the cold?”. The influenza virus is not the same virus that causes colds. FAIL.

Well done LBC for making what could have been an embarrassing stuff-up which may have resulted in a few cranky posts on Jeni’s blog into a world wide scandal. (Interestingly, someone calling themselves Andy Wakefield from Thoughtful House posted a message on Jeni’s blog offering assistance. Well, I guess he would know!)

Thank you Ben for bringing this to our attention. Thank you Res for posting this to YouTube.

Here are some other links worth reading.
Podblack
NHS Blog Doctor
Holford watch