The Uniting Church in the City has withdrawn access to their venue for a scheduled AVN seminar, due to be held in Perth tomorrow night.
According to the Church there were concerns raised by a number of people, including prominent church members who are experts in the field of ethics and public health, that the message promoted by the Australian Vaccination Network is not in line with the ethos and values of the Uniting Church in Australia.
No Uniting Church in the City venue is being made available to the AVN for tomorrow night’s meeting (update AEST 20:42, please see below; it has been cancelled with plans to reschedule in the next four weeks).
The AVN organised the seminar following the recent spate of adverse reactions to the seasonal flu vaccine in children under five years of age.
Australia wide, over 400 reactions have been reported, in five states, the majority of which occurred in Western Australia. Authorities are still investigating the cause of high fevers and febrile convulsions. Most children recovered, but one child in Queensland died 12 hrs after receiving the vaccine. The coroner found no evidence to implicate the vaccine.
The AVN seminar, “Flu Vaccines and Informed Choice” was described in an e-newsletter;
“This talk examines the risk of flu to children, the effectiveness of the vaccine and the additional risks to children’s health of adding another vaccine to the childhood schedule.”
Both media spokesperson and immediate past-president, Meryl Dorey and Murdoch University PhD candidate Judy Wilyman were scheduled to talk.
“To date, more than 300 serious reactions to the current seasonal flu shot have been reported in children under the age of 5 with one child known to have died within hours of being vaccinated. All the indications are that this figure grossly underestimates the actual number of reactions. In her talk, Meryl Dorey will discuss how vaccines are intended to work and why it is that they often don’t. She will talk about the known side effects of childhood and adult shots and reveal that according to the Australian government, as few as 1% of vaccine reactions ever get reported, leading to a belief that they are perfectly safe.”
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This is not the first time the AVN has been refused access to a venue after having organised, booked and advertised a seminar. In 2009, they were forced to find another venue at short notice after a school in Mt Barker, South Australia declined their appearance, following notification of the nature of their material.
In a blog post entitled “AVN Under attack” Meryl Dorey described how those opposed to her ideas “…have tried to get venues where I am scheduled to present vaccination seminars to cancel and have harassed those who sponsor such events.”
Whilst publicly claiming to be the “pro-choice”, the AVN preaches a clear anti-vaccination message, designed to scare parents into shunning vaccinations for their children.
They were also recently refused paid advertising in The Child Group magazines, distributed free Australia wide and targeted specifically to parents, for similar reasons.
In South Australia, the AVN was able to secure a new venue at the last minute.
A recent tweet from the AVN (@nocompulsoryvac) published at 12:31 AEST, May 13th said; “Flying out to Perth, WA for our seminar tomorrow nite on flu vax. If you haven’t booked yet, extra chairs have been put in-call 1800 007 468 about 5 hours ago via HootSuite”.
At the time of writing, it is not known if Mrs Dorey is aware of the venue cancellation.
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UPDATE:
Meryl has just sent an e-newsletter about this. The text is reproduced below. Please write to the Uniting Church to thank them for taking a responsible stance here. Or call them on (08) 9321 9711.
———-
“UNITING CHURCH CANCELS AVN SEMINAR AT THE 11TH HOUR
At about 12:45 this afternoon, I was standing on line, waiting to board a plane that would take me to Perth. I had packed, arranged rides for my children, caught up on my office work for the next few days and was ready to just sit back, relax and enjoy the flight (while going over my powerpoint slides for the 20th time!)
As I was waiting my turn to give my ticket to the hostess, my mobile phone rang. I almost didn’t answer but seeing that it was a Western Australian number, I thought I’d better.
Little did I know…
On the other end of the phone was a Mr Andy Corkill who is the Mission Development Officer for the Uniting Church of Perth.
He was calling to inform me that the Church Council had received calls from the WA Dept of Health and from some of their own congregants including a senior academic from a university in Perth. All these people were urging the church to cancel our seminar which was taking place on Friday night.
Mr Corkill informed me that the Council had met the night before and decided that they would cancel the event and that there was really nothing he could do to change this because it was a decision made by the Council – not by him.
When I told him that we had over 100 people booked in to attend and that I was about to board a flight from QLD to Perth specifically for this event, he suggested that we find another venue. He was quite helpful and said they would be happy to post a sign at the Uniting Church to let people know the location of the new venue – hah!
I asked him where he thought I would be able to find a venue for over 100 people in just over 24 hours and he replied that he couldn’t help with that but I couldn’t have any Uniting Church venues.
So – off to the counter I go and ask them to pull my bags off the plane – down the $750 we paid to the Church for the venue and the almost $700 for the plane fares.
Don’t be downhearted!
A person could really be forgiven for feeling more than a little bit downhearted by these events. After all, there are children all across Australia who have died or been seriously injured by the flu vaccine in recent weeks. There is a little girl in PMH right now who was in a coma for some time and now faces a difficult and uncertain future because of this shot. And yet, the Department of Health and certain academics have decided that Australian parents need to be treated like mushrooms and kept away from any information that might call into doubt the safety of shots.
Unfortunately for them however, this action is going to backfire and backfire badly. This backlash is already starting!
The media in WA is now asking the following questions:
1- Who at the department of health chose to put pressure on the Church to force them to cancel our seminar? Why would a small event, attended by only 100 people, be of concern to the government?
2- Who was the senior academic who used his status as a member of the Uniting Church congregation and a supposed expert on this issue to state that the AVN should not be allowed to speak at a Church venue?
3- By trying to suppress this information, is the government trying to pretend that these reactions never took place? Are they stepping on our right to freedom of communication – a right that has been upheld by the High Court of Australia?
In the meantime, we contacted everyone who was booked into the seminar tomorrow to let them know it’s been cancelled. Several of these people have excellent contacts with larger and better venues in Perth and we are hoping to reschedule this talk for sometime within the next 4 weeks.
Of course, we will let you know as soon as we have rescheduled.
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UPDATE#2 16/05/10
The Church has now issued a press release stating their reasons for cancelling the AVN seminar. To read the pdf, click on the hyperlink “Cancellation of Australian Vaccination Network Event” on this page.
To read some of the emails apparently sent to the Church from AVN supporters, go here.
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Comments ( 35 )
[...] This post was mentioned on Twitter by Dave The 
Singer, Bastard Sheep, SeandBlogonaut, SeandBlogonaut, Jon and others. Jon said: Great job downunder! RT Another venue pulls the plug on the AVN http://bit.ly/c2dPpa #antivax #vaccination /via @DrRachie [...]
[...] died within hours of being vaccinated. All the indications are that this figure … More: » Another venue pulls the plug on the AVN Posted in Seasonal Flu Information. Tags: being-vaccinated, children-under, current, have-died, [...]
» Another venue pulls the plug on the AVN | SEASONALFLU.US added these pithy words on May 13 10 at 20:43[...] call into doubt the safety of shots. Unfortunately for them however, … The rest is here: » Another venue pulls the plug on the AVN Posted in Seasonal Flu Info. Tags: 300-serious, and-certain, been-reported, child-known, [...]
» Another venue pulls the plug on the AVN | SEASONALFLU.INFO added these pithy words on May 13 10 at 22:40[...] Australian church rejects vaccine denialists at the AVN – Meryl Dorey and her goons at the misnamed Australian Vaccination Network (AVN [snicker]) [...]
News From Around The Blogosphere 5.15.10 « Skepacabra added these pithy words on May 16 10 at 16:44[...] the AVN have scheduled a public lecture in Perth in recent wekks. The first time, their booking was cancelled at the eleventh hour owing to the Uniting Church in the City (responsibly) deeming that hosting the [...]
» The AVN WA library lecture becomes a political bun fight where kids are the losers added these pithy words on Jun 02 10 at 20:09[...] This Australian Human Rights Commission finding is “illegal”. The Uniting Church is “corrupt”), or your line of work; then, you can expect to be called all sorts of [...]
Accuse people of belonging to a “hate group”: that always works, right? | reasonablehank added these pithy words on Feb 17 12 at 15:02Fuzztwin added these pithy words on May 13 10 at 19:30Congratulations to the Uniting Church. The AVN would save themselves a lot of time and money if they were honest and transparent with their views on vaccination in the first place.
KittyB added these pithy words on May 13 10 at 19:41email of thanks sent to the Uniting Church in the City.
Vaccinate Your Children added these pithy words on May 13 10 at 19:58Meryl will be screaming about censorship, but she just doesn’t get it. Giving her opinion isn’t the problem. It’s when she supports it with demonstrable lies that people get annoyed.
.The Church deserves a huge pat on the back for taking this ethical stance. It’s a given that this ‘seminar’ would quickly degenerate into an attack on all vaccines, based on the usual AVN scare tactics and mistruths.
.They’ll probably find an alternate venue, but the damage has been done. More people have been made aware of their true motives.
Maggie added these pithy words on May 13 10 at 20:03Someone told me there was a notification in the West Aust press. I think there will be a lot of people asking questions as to what and why this happened.
Dan Buzzard added these pithy words on May 13 10 at 20:12Wow, a Church on the side of ethics. I really am impressed.
KittyB added these pithy words on May 13 10 at 20:39Meryl has a new post out, says she found out just before she boarded the plane… oh and the expected tantrum.
EoR added these pithy words on May 13 10 at 21:16Unfortunately, Howard Sattler covered this extensively on 6PR today, with a lengthy discussion with Meryl Dorey arguing only her side of events. Mr Sattler repeated his snide comments about Australia being a democracy a number of times. His callers repeated the usual tropes (thimerosol, autism/vaccine a proven link etc). Meryl Dorey is a regular on Mr Sattler’s show, anytime vaccination information is needed. She is clearly independent because, as she constantly repeats, she always tells people to make their own decisions about vaccination. None of her claims were contested (including the death in Queensland).
Fuzztwin added these pithy words on May 13 10 at 23:33I have emailed 6PR’s General Manager, Declan Kelly declank@6pr.com.au and submitted feedback to Howard Sattler via the 6PR contact page http://www.6pr.com.au/contact-us.html
Mick added these pithy words on May 14 10 at 00:10Normally I’d disapprove of a venue cancelling at such short notice, but the AVN really are a public health menace. The Uniting Church has earned itself some ethical brownie points for this.
AndyD added these pithy words on May 14 10 at 00:57UCA sponsors vaccination in West Timor. It would not have looked good to be supporting an anti-vaccination rally – which it appears is what an AVN seminar would essentially be.
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Though I would liked to have read Podblack’s report on Meryl’s explanation of how vaccines [don't] work. Maybe she’ll get to the next one.
CryoTank added these pithy words on May 14 10 at 07:16This must be my first time giving a church a thumbs-up
shellity added these pithy words on May 14 10 at 09:09I’m not surprised that Meryl’s crying foul about the cancellation, but it is refreshing to see that there’s no mention of “septics”.
EoR added these pithy words on May 14 10 at 11:52@Fuzztwin: good luck. The first story on 6PR’s website (http://www.6pr.com.au/) today is:
“Flu vaccines – nothing to sneeze about.
Meryl Dorey from the Australian Vaccination Network was due to arrive in Perth for a conference on flu vaccination and childs health. After the recent flu vaccine debacle, the venue has conveniently been made unavailable. Meryl phoned 6PR’s Howard Sattler with her concerns.”
So, no loaded language there at all.
AndyD added these pithy words on May 14 10 at 12:55And yet, the Department of Health and certain academics have decided that Australian parents need to be treated like mushrooms and kept away from any information that might call into doubt the safety of shots.
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That’s why they sent out a media alert and suspended the vaccination program across Australia. Hidden in full view I guess.
EoR added these pithy words on May 14 10 at 21:16Meryl Dorey had a return appearance on Howard Sattler’s show today, with Howard accusing the Health Department of some sort of nefarious bias (since they’re ‘pro-vaccination’) and claiming people want to ‘bag Meryl and pull down her argument’. Meryl made some vague claim about an ‘organisation’ of people who are against her.
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Sattler was reasonably restrained with his first few callers, since they supported Dorey (though he only asked the first caller if she was part of Dorey’s organisation – after a pause she admitted she was on the AVN mailing list) but when someone called up to argue against Dorey he said the caller was doing exactly the same thing as Hitler by wanting to censor Dorey.
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If it wasn’t so serious it would be funny.
SkepticalOfSoCalledSceptics added these pithy words on May 16 10 at 13:32Skeptical of everything but your own hypocrisy here I see.
.Seems to indicate the shallowness of your evidence and convictions that you need to support manipulation and standover tactics to stop people meeting and talking.
Prefer to cultivate a nation of ignorant lard bum sycophants to the chemical-medicine-food industries?
Dan Buzzard added these pithy words on May 16 10 at 15:04Why hasn’t Meryl Dorey won a Nobel Prize? Surely they must have some recognition for bullshit.
SkepticalOfSoCalledSceptics added these pithy words on May 16 10 at 16:13Parents ‘pimp’ kids for swine flu test
http://www.news.com.au/national/parents-pimp-kids-for-swine-flu-test/story-e6frfkvr-1225867289202
* By Clair Weaver
* From: The Sunday Telegraph
* May 16, 2010 12:00AM
.Claims parents are “pimping their kids” by allowing them to be used in drug trials. Source: AP
* Parents paid to use kids for drug trials
* Doctors also paid a “referral fee”
.PARENTS are enrolling children as young as nine months in drug trials in exchange for hundreds of dollars.
.The cash payments, which could breach national ethical guidelines, will ignite debate over how much should be paid to cover “reasonable expenses” of trial participants.
.An industry whistleblower alerted The Sunday Telegraph after some parents were netting $900 by enrolling three children at a time into an H1N1 flu vaccine trial.
.“I think when you start offering money the whole altruistic thing goes out the window,” the whistleblower said.
“You just get parents pimping out their children for a quick buck.”
GPs are also being paid a fee, understood to be at least $200, to refer young patients to the drug-testing clinics.
.Parents of healthy children aged between six months and 10 years are receiving $300 to test the safety and effectiveness of a new H1N1 vaccine produced by GlaxoSmithKline (GSK).
.The trial involves two needles, two blood tests and medical monitoring for each child.
.An informed consent form that parents must sign first acknowledges side effects may include pain, headaches, fever, bruising, swollen glands and chest tightness. More rare reactions could result in allergic responses, nerve pain, convulsions, neurological disorders and autoimmune diseases.
.Another trial for an asthma drug is offering a reimbursement of $600 for those aged 12 and over, with testing at centres in Hornsby and Blacktown in NSW.
.The H1N1 trial is being tested at centres in Kippa Ring and Caboolture in Queensland.
.A spokeswoman for AusTrials, the company which operates both trials for GSK, confirmed it paid reimbursements of $300 for the vaccine trial and $600 for the asthma trial. She said the vaccine trial involved three visits, the asthma trial involved 13.
.But the whistleblower said children were effectively being used as lab rats.
.“Parents are giving consent on their children’s behalf,” the source said.
.“(The centres) were getting some families turn up with three or four kids, then you walk away with nearly a grand at the end of three visits.”
.Offering inducements that encourage people to take part in a clinical trial is “ethically unacceptable”, according to the National Health and Medical Research Council (NHMRC).
.The Royal Australasian College of Physicians says it is “inadvisable” for a child to participate in a trial unless there is some benefit or the parent is making a decision in their best interest. The decision must also be free of “inappropriate incentives”.
.Australian Medical Association ethics committee chairman Dr Peter Ford said parents whose children took part in trials should not be motivated by money.
.So far, 110 children have been recruited for the H1N1 vaccine trial but none have signed up for the asthma trial yet, the AusTrials spokeswoman said.
.It is not clear whether GlaxoSmithKline, which was unavailable for comment, is aware of the reimbursements.
Maggie added these pithy words on May 16 10 at 19:25Stand-over tactics? Manipulation? @skepticalof… did you read the statement from the Church?
The UCIC has decided to cancel the hire of one of its rooms at the Queen’s Building by the Australian Vaccination Network (AVN) tomorrow evening, Friday 14 May 2010. One of the UCIC’s concerns is that there may be a public perception that the UCIC does not support childhood vaccinations, due to the AVN seminar being held at UCIC’s rooms.
How does this constitute stand-over tactics?
Maggie added these pithy words on May 16 10 at 19:29@skepticalof… Please make your points about this story and we will be happy to discuss your concerns. Copying and pasting news stories devoid of comment, constitutes trolling. Please familiarise yourself with the comments policy on this blog.
SkepticalOfSoCalledSceptics added these pithy words on May 16 10 at 20:35So there is actually someone home here to allow comments.
.Standover tactics to try and suppress a public meeting about an issue of current interest and concern to the public.
.Some people bleated loudly about public debate being the best way to resolve things when Singh was facing being sued, but now bray like the audience at the circus when public space is denied to others, or get pathetically upset when they do get a chance to talk.
Says a lot about the integrity of the scepticism here that some are cheering on the church for continuing and age old tradition there, capitulating to particular interests.
.Re the story
.Ah, companies paying doctors and parents to ‘pimp’ kids for clinical trials?
You don’t see an issue here?
You have no sceptical analysis of corporate pharmaceutical interests?
Not interested in the public perception being portrayed by such stories appearing in the media?
Not interested in pursuing the story further, maybe making some complaint to the Health Complaints Comission about unethical behaviour and conduct, and there by the valdity of, clinical trials being conducted in Australia on behalf of pharmaceutical interests?
.I’m by no means an acolyte of AVN or anyone else, I checked your blog and there’s a bit of interesting stuff, but frankly the Australian sceptics sound and appear more like a pack private school idiots with a barely supressed moralistic charge to control what other people think and can get access to as much as the Taliban at times.
I understand there may be some transference from enduring taking on religious extremists. Might be an idea to think about that.
.Poor effort girls and boys, and the hysteria about a few people meeting somewhere and just saying something really seems to underline an inherent weakness in those who argue it’s too dangerous to even hear a few words of ‘others’.
It strikes me a stupid idea to think this will just make it all go away. The jumping up and down like cheer squad made me more interested in contributing an opposing point than accepting anything valid you might have to say.
.This is not scepticism, this seems more like organised and manipulative mob insulting at some sites and no doubt indicates further campaigning beneath the surface.
.regards
Maggie added these pithy words on May 16 10 at 21:02Hi @scepticalof, firstly let me make it clear that the opinions expressed on this blog do not necessarily reflect those of Australian Skeptics. If you wish to see their opinions please head over to skeptics.com.au.
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Secondly, yes I am concerned about drug companies behaving badly – check my posts about the recent adverse reactions. But I do not know enough about this current story to comment as yet. I will need to do some research into the accusations made by the author of this news story. But I will say that virtually all people who participate in clinical trials are compensated for their participation (usually in a monetary sense). The concern here seems to be the amount of compensation. I am not familiar with the NHMRC regulations for limits in this area. Perhaps if you find a source you would be so kind as to provide a link here.
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The Taliban? Wow, so now the Aust Skeptics go around with guns and hide in mountains? Not sure I get your point here, but it sounds to me you are skirting towards Godwin’s law.
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I will reiterate that the Uniting Church in the City made the decision to cancel this event. I do however support their decision, since I have read much more than a “few words” of the AVN and they continue to get their facts wrong about vaccination. I don’t think anyone has a right to go out preaching falsehoods that could potentially endanger the lives of children. Everyone is entitled to their own opinions not their own facts. And the AVN certainly are liberal with the facts about vaccination.
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Further campaigning beneath the surface also sounds like conspiracy theories to me. I think you will find that the current complaints against the AVN to the HCCC, and the OLGR are quite public.
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Finally, if you do have an opposing point of view, you are welcome to air it here, with reputable sources to support it, and we will discuss it.
Maggie added these pithy words on May 16 10 at 21:21@skepticalof, it also seems to me the AVN would save themselves a lot of hassle, time and money if they were upfront and honest about the nature of their vaccination material in the first place. This was the reason the Perth seminar was cancelled and the Mt Barker seminar had to be rescheduled at the last minute.
weez added these pithy words on May 16 10 at 21:24SkepticalOfSoCalledSceptics slobbered: “I’m by no means an acolyte of AVN or anyone else”
Bullshit.
ilijasx added these pithy words on May 16 10 at 21:53At no point does @SkepticalOfSoCalledSceptics make it clear how, and based on what evidence, she/he has reached the conclusion that the financial reward for participation in vaccination trials constitutes this conflict of interest.
.If this is the so-called smoking gun you’d have masses of trials going down the toilet, as no one would bother turning up.
.Also, this concern troll pretends to know what is inside the minds of all the people involved in conducting the trials, and without a shred of evidence, but presumably based on the “smoking gun” hypothesis has drawn a silly conclusion of this mass conspiracy.
.The points are silly and appealing to emotions, rather than being factual.
.@SkepticalOfSoCalledSceptics try to talk about facts, please.
.And don’t presume to know what’s inside the minds of the people you refer to as skeptics. You’ll find out a lot more by asking, rather than making such incendiary and insulting remarks.
Maggie added these pithy words on May 16 10 at 22:24@ilijasx, when I was at uni, we used to donate bone marrow for medical research. I think it was $25 in the early 90s. Helped to buy 2-minute noodles in those student days, when we were starving. Ouch!
SkepticalOfSoCalledSceptics added these pithy words on May 17 10 at 00:21Hehe
Re the story
In case people didn’t get it, I didn’t make the claim, a ‘whistleblower’ involved in the situation has, and others agree that there’s a problem with paying parents and doctors to participate in clinical trials.
Anyone who can read english should’ve got that.
Interesting how cautious some people become about ethics and moralising raves about others when it’s some people and not others.
See this is just completely typical lack of recognition that any crap belief or bias you can find in anyone else, can easily be found within your apparently hive mind on the subject. Depending upon the subject and circumstance perhaps, but everyone’s only human, including you.
.Frankly the indoctrinaire and insulting admonition to just believe what you (all or individually) say and not be able to investigate the various perspectives on this or any other topic and decide for myself the merits or otherwise of what you or anyone else has to say. Is completely like the kind of bullshit you get from religous zealots.
.How far is it from this to the point where government or authorities (at the behest of brilliant minds such as yours) actively inhibit the right of other people to engage in public debate or gatherings. Because you can’t handle it?
.In terms of moralistic rants and railing about the evil of others I’ve seen on a few sceptic threads and sites, yes the Taliban seem not too long a bow.
In reality of course, I dare say you’d all be far too soft and useless in the mountains to make any real world comparison, and in effect a lot less effective and hopefully less brutal. The world could certainly do with less of the latter.regards
AndyD added these pithy words on May 17 10 at 11:32@SoSCS…
Right, so we should stay silently unopposed to people offering dangerous, baseless “advice”. Got it. And we should do that because you oppose us publicly expressing an opinion on the matter. Got that too.
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Thanks.
ilijasx added these pithy words on May 18 10 at 17:00@ Maggie You don’t want to know what I’ve donated for less than that.
.@ SoSCS What exactly is the point in your post? That you’re better than the skeptics?
