Yes it is a bit pointless, if nothing happens. Maybe the Big Homeo has infiltrated their enforcement division

Hey David, you’re right, I can no longer find it either! Interesting – the decision regarding the complaint was made months ago, so it had taken them a long time to remove it, but hey, it’s not there, so good for the TGA. I take back what I said about an ashtray on a motorbike.

Hi Kris,

FYI

—-

Claims that a product is “TGA approved” are not permitted

18 August 2008

In complaint 2008-02-018, the Panel noted as follows:

Section 4(6)(b) of the Code prohibits representations that goods are endorsed by government bodies. While in one sense the words “Listed with the Therapeutic Goods Administration as a herbal medicine” may constitute an attempt to indicate compliance with the Act, they are likely to convey an implication that the goods so listed are approved by an Australian government agency to a degree that is not factually correct, particularly as regards the efficacy of the product. The complaint was therefore justified. However, for the advertiser’s benefit, the Panel noted that s.42DL(1)(e)(i) of the Act, whilst prohibiting “a reference to the Act”, does permit a statement to the effect that “Product X is listed in the ARTG, AUST L 123″. The Panel also noted that such a statement makes no reference to any government agency.

See http://www.tgacrp.com.au/index.cfm?pageID=21

Also you might be interested to read this;

http://scepticsbook.com/2009/03/14/miracle-patches-that-cure-everything-or-do-they/

My mother and sister used Y-age and they are really happy with effect they achieved . I not sure that this work 100% with all Lifewave products , but Y-Age and SP6 really work . If it will be placebo you never have such obvious results. Your skin treamendously improoving. Placebo not improove your skin.

Have you ever investigated or used any of the lifewave patches?
or are you just find fault without proper evidence. It cuts both ways “don’t knock it until you try it” or your credibility is in question.

Why all the negatives about a product that some people here ‘know nothing about – except what they have read’? Why is your subconscious ‘locked in’ with only the information that it has had stored away for your lifetime and ….. not open to new technologies. EG what do you think your grandparents would have said if someone had told them (when they were young) that soon people will be walking around with mobile phones and sending text messages! Skeptics have closed minds, (especially when all they do is dam and slam). As far as the patches are concerned …. one clever person has found a way to communicate to billions of cells in the body by using Nannotechnology on the merridians.

I have to make one more comment here.

TO those that have only an opinion it is not seen as a responsible way of making your opinion public without any evidence either way.
For those that are Pro Lifewave i suggest you spend your time undergoing a controlled experiment to validate the efficacy of the product and to eliminate the Placebo effect as the underlying cause of your well being.

To those that are pure skeptics it would also be worth putting your money where your mouth is and undergoing the same process as your adversaries.
In the assumption that the product doesn’t work purely based on the fact that the original person ( Moron )who invented these things does not publish his CV is ridiculous. A persons anonymity is no grounds for disqualifying any product and the resulting vilification of said person.

Acupuncture is well regarded treatment regime that is covered by most of the medical insurance companies and most GPs will tell you that it works but they don,t know why. This statement in itself leads the casual observer to the fact that there are far more things going on in the body that the Pure chemical / cellular processes than what is understood by medicine as a whole.

IF these patches stimulate the acupuncture points in a chemical way rather than puncturing the skin with needles then great but if they don’t then what the smeg is going on.

Like all systems external influences often play a role in the way it responds to certain stimuli and the human body is by far the best reference we have to that in the known universe.

Quackery is alive and well but in some cases the fore-mentioned quackery may have some basis in truth however we fail to see the reasoning behind these claims and then cast these people into hell for their comments due to our beliefs. The general uneducated and opinionated population is usually the ones that starts this process underway and then questions are raised in the academic community who have deep routed beliefs and egos the size of houses and then the whole thing is discredited. Galileo was a fantastic example of the truth being a threat to the structure of belief and the powerhouses of that belief, not to say that this is the case here and that this moron is by any means in Galileo’s league.
So we must open our minds and ask the questions and undertake the experiments to gather worthwhile real and unbiased data to accurately determine the efficacy of this series of products and not just by the scientific community. in many cases they come into this with prejudged views as it may effect the results of their data and beliefs.

So stop your opinions on both sides and do the experiments in a proper and controlled fashion without bias or tampering of the process or results to suit your beliefs or pre-judged ideals.

I in no way endorse or condone the business practices of this company or directors, In fact it is just a rip off but that is not the question here. The real question is to they actually work? and if so why?

My GP, yes a real doctor uses these things and swears by them but i like others need to acquire more data before i determine if they are worth the time or money.

Always remember this: it is not how many questions you ask it is if you as the right question or not!

I had a doctor try to sell me magnets for my shoes that would make me run better and be stronger instantly. I didn’t even need to have them in my shoes. We did a demonstration where I held a magnet in my hand and pushed down on his arm, then we did it without. Let me just say his acting was embarrassingly bad. Even a medical degree isn’t a guarantee that some one can think critically.

Well now, perhaps there will be a Nobel Prize in the future! And its not David Schultz! I have personally met this man and studied his progress and YES he has founded a new technology for well being. I think he is a very gifted soul – lot of people are jealous of that fact! Time will teach the damming and negative people that they should get out of their subconscious minds, be open minded and learn what Nanotechnology,energy and light is all about and how the patches work. That will take you some time, especially if you are not worldly in you thinking.

Maggie: you wrote – “Notably, there is still no physiological evidence for the existence for meridians.”
You are soooo unevolved. I bet you dont have a spiritual bone in your body. You would be one of those people who cant get their head around anything other than what they can ‘see’ and understand at this point in life.

@Kris, so you have evidence for the existence of meridians? I would love to see it. I only accept the peer reviewed published in reputable scientific journals kind, please.

Just out of interest, are you a Lifewave distributor or just a fan?

I am not! Perhaps Kris is though.

What happened to Kris? Gone to troll somewhere else? Kris, you know I have another LIfewave blog. How long will it talk you to find it?

You should ask the athletes and Olympic athletes who had used them, how they feel about these patches,lol.
the Olympic commitee checked them out, agreed to allow them to be used since nothing enters the body.
Tell that to mr Coleman (6 times mr Universe), or to the boxer Paquiao from Philipines,lol.

I did not, i repeat i did not think these patches worked, i have used them and placed correctly they DO. I have used the pain relief ones and i am converted. I don’t know about advertising I do know that these can help so many people and it would fantastic if the medical profession looked at alternatives like this. I say go try then write on here.

The Lifewave product does have consistent clinical studies proving the effectiveness of the patches and these are performed by recognised institutions world wide. Visit any regular Lifewave site and click on Products/Research. (Are the sceptics saying all these organisations and the professionals that attend are all a scam as well?)
.

As for placebo effect how come the infra red imaging can change to so much the better after wearing the patches and on animals also! Does the animal know the pain is supposed to go away and can change the imaging just by thinking about it?
.

The biggest problem with the product is that it works so well that people feel it is impossible to do that, so something else must be going on? For those technical boffins busy knocking something they know nothing of, learn here.
.
“The Life Wave patches do not spontaneously emit energies; rather they absorb frequencies emanating from your body and then selectively return some of them. When you place a patch on or near your body, frequencies leaving your body cause the molecules within the patch to self-assemble in to a crystal structure. The crystal structure serves as an antenna, capturing frequencies leaving your body (kind of like a FM receiver), and then, depending on the function of the patch, it selectively emanates frequencies into the Meridian communication system, as a function of where on the system the patch is placed. Energy flow within the Meridian system is increased, directing your body to carry out actions that it currently is not carrying out, or not carrying out efficiently. The Life Wave patch is like a program that we insert into your computer to make certain programs run more efficiently.”
.
And if you cannot believe this then how does an ECG work? Yes, there are problems where the product does not appear to work (Sometimes) and this can often be solved by drinking more water or in the case of excessive toxins in the body work on clearing this up first.
.
The cruel part is that there are people suffering and there is a product that may provide relief if we can get past the ignorance of sceptics. The product is network marketed to get it to the world at the best price and with best method of communication through membership. It could be mass stored, advertised and sold through normal distribution channels but at what cost? Anyway, in the meantime I will just continue promoting this great product and continue watching people obtain life changing relief in so many ways.

No Bob, the cruel part is that you are selling a placebo to people who might need science based medicine (that is medicine that has been proven to work) or people who have illnesses for which there is no cure – such as autism. The least this does is empty people’s wallets, gives false hope, and at worst it can cause harm if people stop using their evidence based treatment.
.
As for this?
.

“When you place a patch on or near your body, frequencies leaving your body cause the molecules within the patch to self-assemble in to a crystal structure. The crystal structure serves as an antenna, capturing frequencies leaving your body (kind of like a FM receiver), and then, depending on the function of the patch, it selectively emanates frequencies into the Meridian communication system, as a function of where on the system the patch is placed. Energy flow within the Meridian system is increased, directing your body to carry out actions that it currently is not carrying out, or not carrying out efficiently. ”
.

Well that’s gibberish. There is no such thing as “meridians” and the rest is just science words peppered in a lot of text to make it look “sciencey”.
.

Also, isn’t network marketing a new way of saying “pyramid marketing”?

@Bob, well of course you are “all for the Lifewave product” – you sell the stuff for near 90 bucks a pop. Not bad for a bit of gauze with nothing in it (it’s also homeopathic).
.

I won’t need it one day, because I only use medicine for which there is evidence that it works. Not magic patches with made up “science”.

Maggie, many years ago I was told not to argue with a fool, they will always beat you down with their wisdom! I am sorry. I forgot that for a moment. I will stick with the thousands of Doctors, Specialists and individuals I communicate with on a daily basis with this product and all have great success in using the product. However you obviously “know” more than all the trained doctors and specialists in the world so I “Bow down” to your “wisdom”? I do not need to say anymore on this and anything you add will, unfortunately for you, just impress what I am saying.

Dear Maggie, I am very sorry to raise this again but I have already directed you to to these studies and have you not read them? Or do you just feel that all these doctors, specialists and institutions must be “Scammers” as well?. I respect your supposed position that as a cell biologist you have concerns on products that “Appear” suspicious. Don’t we all! But PLEASE, direct your efforts toward products that may create problems and don’t be the problem with products that may well be safe and effective. I am really sorry, but I have better things to do than waste time following your mis directed efforts. Over and OUT!

Goodness, check the date of the “Scam. This was presented by misinformed scammers during year 2005 and the date shown indicates year 2008, 5th month – or is this another ploy to discredit the product? You seem to have a problem with “Placebo” because the patches induce nothing into the body? Your ancestors must have been rolling around holding their sides laughing when Aeroplanes were first being built – they weren’t supposed to fly?
I am not knocking your scepticsm, to be honest I did not believe in the product until I found out more. The people shown on YouTube Lifewave are real people having real results. Should we close down these postings, or could you posibly to do some actual research on the product yourself first?

these are amazing products,and i say it from my personal experiance

I love reading these comments……so if it doesn’t work then it’s pseudo science and quackery, and if it does work then it’s obviously placebo, sounds to me a bit like the old witch trials (if you float you’re a witch and you’re hung, if you drown your not). I remember a few years ago watching an expose on television news explaining how something absurd like 30% of the pharmaceutical industries drugs are placebo, and to get the drugs passed for distribution they only needed a success rate treating illness of something like 5% (don’t quote me on these figures as it was a few years ago I saw this). I’m not pro or con lifewave because I’ve never used them but I don’t see anything on their website that’s too outlandish, this is an opinion formed with a mind fairly well educated in the philosophy behind traditional and alternative medicine. What does make me chuckle though is people on here saying ‘I use them, yes they work, they’re great’ and then others reply with ‘No, no, you’re obviously wrong, you must have tricked yourself in to thinking they work because with the information I have I don’t believe they can work so you’re direct experience of them working must be wrong’. You’re trying to be the scientific rational side of the argument and yet you don’t see how cuckoo crazy you come across with this type of thinking.

Well insane people don’t realize they are insane or else they wouldn’t be insane. The mind is very good at doing its job, it will follow what ever it has been taught to believe, regardless of the legitimacy or truth behind the belief, and if it believes something to be true it will then edit its surrounding reality to support this belief through perception. So when because of their understanding a person believes that it is impossible for lifewave patches to work, they will only see the evidence to support this belief, discounting people’s personal accounts, or a 5000 year system of medicine, or whatever conflicts with their understanding. And of course vice versa, so the person who does believe they work will completely discount the lack of empirical support or rigorous double blind testing. Then, hilariously, they argue with each other, each person completely convinced that they are correct, never realizing that they create and edit their reality with their beliefs, only seeing what the mind is conditioned to see. So what’s the problem then? The mind is conditioned to experience reality through its unconscious beliefs, which means most people care more about being correct than they do about the truth.

No because my hair was drawn on in blue biro.

Maggie, what are you thinking? These are not placebos (!), how rediculous!! You seem to have the whole scientist mentality, in that you think you are one & therefore you are incapable of seeing the forest for the trees, so to speak. So, you need proof in some pulished journal…then it will be ok? Then they will “work”? Who are YOU, like your opinon is the only one worth listening to. You approach your “arguement” like a stubborn child who resorts to trying to bully or ridicule the opposing person. You have OBVIOUSLY not done any personal research with a hologram so therefore you say its ONLY “medicine” if it cures a previously uncurable disease or ailment, correct? COPD seems like it qualifies then, would you say? How about ADD or ADHD or any of the other letters that all kids are? How about a car accident victim that has spent 2 years/multiple doctors/multiple meds and has been in agony the whole time? I have seen them do that & more…in person. Tell me how you, on your reliance of “modern” medicine, thinks that side effects are “OK”, even when many of them are worse than the ailment? I LOVE that you said there are no such things as meridians!! You are OBVIOUSLY not much of a scientific mind now are you?!! YOU, Maggie, are the ONE scientific knowledgebase repository, aren’t you! YOU figured it all out now, didn’t you? I bet you think a double-blind test, the most stringent one available, is WRONG when it proves you wrong, don’t you? Well, get ready…there has been one just recently that shows there is a definitive positive result that is measurable & recordable against placebo. As for your rantings, please explain why you feel the need to spew baseless negative? The chips work, proven, period. Meridians exsist, proven scientifically, period. Accupunture WORKS, proven over THOUSANDS of years, period. Maybe you do not “believe” we are electrical either? Maybe you do not “believe” a hologram cannot be a data storage medium? Or even that, as electrical energy beings, that our electrical field could not possibly be the power source for a data medium to run a program embedded in the hologram that has done things that “modern” medicines have been able to do yet! Do yourself a favor, educate yourself if you are going to speak, if you don’t, the EXPECT to be questioned & proven stupid, period.
http://www.cieaura.com will show you how this is possible. Oh BTW, there are “real” doctors quitting pharmacals & using these as MEDICINE!
I just really find you offensive by your tone & attitude, you ARE a spoiled little bratty kid with a title & no brains outside an office, if you even have a title or an office. I will check out your other bashing blog, it is interesting to me how some people MUST have negativity in their life to feel like they are making a difference somehow, pulling others down.

Hi John, nice of you to drop by. I’ve have studied the “science” behind Lifewave and there is none. Perhaps if you wish to engage in a discussion about the evidence for and against Lifewave you might like to drop the abusive language.
.

[The chips work, proven, period.] Evidence please
.
[Meridians exsist, proven scientifically, period.] Evidence please
.

[Accupunture WORKS, proven over THOUSANDS of years, period.] Evidence please. I’ve just written a review on acupuncture for peer review publication and there is some evidence it works better than placebo for lower back pain and mild headache but nothing more. I take it you have read all the peer reviewed literature which is why you know it works?
.

[Do yourself a favor, educate yourself if you are going to speak, if you don’t, the EXPECT to be questioned & proven stupid, period.]
.

But you haven’t proven me to be stupid. All you’ve done is abuse me and provide no evidence for your claims. Kinda makes you look a bit silly doesn’t it?

I recently tried Lifewave and seemed to have good results, although I was highly skeptical after reading websites like these (once the seed of doubt has been planted it’s hard to remove). I know there was no chance of placebo because when the patches arrived and I looked at them I was just like “oh man, I have been tucked up and put to bed like a chump, they’re just plasters and plastic beads”. The patches I ordered were anti-oxidant increasers.

.

So over the last few months, probably about three quarters of the people I work with (I work with about 120 people, also the public) have been getting ill with this horrible flu like bug that’s been going around this winter (I live in England, it’s even been reported in the media that winter flu and gastro-enteritis have reached epidemic levels). Really horrible chesty coughs, stomach bugs and all the works, some people seem to have had it for weeks, and being a smoker, a drinker, (especially over Christmas and new years) and someone who has to get up early (4.00am some days) and goes to bed late, I usually end up catching all the colds and whatever that go around each year.
.
So a few weeks ago I was wondering why I seem to be one of the few who wasn’t getting sick, then I remembered I’d been wearing the patches and thought “well if they are legitimate then I shouldn’t be getting sick”. I know this is purely anecdotal and won’t change anyone’s opinion but I just wanted to say that I’ve had positive results using them after pretty much believing they were going to be useless.
.

I also completely agree that proper testing should be conducted, if it works why wouldn’t/shouldn’t results be scrutinized. I also want to add that my mother practices acupuncture part time, so I quizzed her about using a bead to stimulate an acupuncture point as I was familiar with techniques which involve tapping on points with your fingers (EFT). She said it’s perfectly viable and that occasionally she’ll get a client who doesn’t like needles so she’ll do a treatment on them just using pressure. So taping a bead to stimulate acupuncture points on my body is something I will be experimenting with in the future as I am not willing to pay the frankly extortionate prices lifewave are asking.
.
Finally to the person who asks for evidence of acupuncture working because they don’t think it does, in England even the government run NHS (National Health Service) offer acupuncture as a legitimate treatment option, saying you don’t believe in it makes you sound like a complete thicko (no offence), and it casts everything else you’ve said in to doubt.
.
I mean you seriously don’t believe it works despite millions of people over thousands of years using it!!?? Come on, pull your head out of your arse and take a look around for a minute. What do you think mankind was doing before ‘peer reviewed publications’? You think that past cultures experimenting with treatments would turn their noses up at something because not enough people from the village believed it was theoretically possible? Of course they didn’t they used things that had positive results and if enough people experienced positive results they treatment remained, if not it would be discarded, no clipboards and double blind studies, just pure anecdotal evidence.
.
The fact that acupuncture has been used effectively for thousands of years across hundreds of generations by millions of people should prove to even the most self righteous doubters that its validity is self evident.

Hey Maggie, just to clarify I only used the terms thicko and told you to get your head out of your arse as buzz words to rile you up because you seem a bit stubborn. In reality I respect your opinions as your own and realize they have no bearing on my understanding, so don’t take that personally (I’m sure you didn’t anyway). I was hoping to get blasted with scientific fact from you actually but some of your arguments seem a bit flakey. Of course I know what homeopathy is, but telling me to research it through wikipedia!!??
.

I’ll just assume that was a tongue in cheek joke (I hope it was), in England wikipedia has become a slang word synonymous with ‘flakey information’ (being a website anyone can just edit freely) and is a bit of a running joke. Anyway obviously I know in regards to my lack of work illness, there are a million different contributing variables, all I’m saying is, I know my life, I know my body, there’s a possibility the patches had an effect.
.
Also, I didn’t say “why doesn’t acupuncture work if the NHS supports it”, I said “in England even the government run NHS (National Health Service) offer acupuncture as a legitimate treatment option”, meaning that its use is so widespread that a country half way round the world from its origin, with a completely different philosophy on medicine, still have its government offering the treatment. In response you start talking about homeopathy?? Homeopathy has nothing to do with acupuncture. Saying because the NHS offer homeopathy which they prove doesn’t work implies acupuncture doesn’t work is about the least scientific thinking I’ve ever read, you could use that argument against everything the NHS do.
.
Millions of people believing the earth was flat or the sun was traveling around the earth have absolutely no bearing on what we’re talking about, these are optical illusions of visual perception. Using acupuncture is a direct experience to a person’s physiology, with fully experienced cause and effect results. In this context can you think of any medical treatment that doesn’t work and has as much widespread use today as it did 5000 years ago? Fair play if you can, perhaps there is but I can’t think of any. I sometimes wonder if people like yourself studying acupuncture even understand it at all? Just like any treatment it’s not a guaranteed panacea due to variables of the situation, and just like all medical treatments, there is a hierarchy in which its effectiveness is going to be dictated by. If you have a muscle strain then acupuncture can reduce swelling and heal the wound more rapidly, but if you have muscle inflammation due to a bone fragment coming away from the bone and sticking in to your muscle, aggravating it, then obviously acupuncture may help the symptoms but it will be impossible for it to cure the problem. This does not mean it doesn’t work.
.
One other thing if you can hear me with your head up there (joke!), this is something I’ve always found perplexing. It’s widely recognized that the placebo effect can cause something to work when obviously it’s actually the persons belief that heals (pretty incredible in itself), but never is it mentioned that a persons belief that something won’t work will stop a valid treatment from working (hypochondria). It seems that the scientific community love to use the placebo effect to disprove that something works, but never acknowledges it when results go the other way. I hope this letter finds you well, love you babe xxxxxx

BTW, do you have evidence that acupuncture is “5000 years old”? Apparently it might be as young as 300 years old. See http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/?p=252

“obviously I know in regards to my lack of work illness, there are a million different contributing variables, all I’m saying is, I know my life, I know my body, there’s a possibility the patches had an effect” – Solomon

“I can’t think of any other option since Solomon makes it clear that no one could possibly avoid the flu without Lifewave, and he’s skeptical and everything” – AndyD

Are you making a joke andy? or are you just thick as sh*t? Maybe if you don’t understand words like ‘contributing variables’ and ‘possibility’ you could ask Maggie to explain them for you, she’ll even post pictures so you know she’s not making it up.

Maggie, I’m a bit confused, why are you talking about homeopathy? I can’t find anything on the lifewave website about homeopathy. We just had a conversation about acupuncture because the lifewave patches include a small bead which you place under the plaster which exerts pressure on the skin, this is a recognized acupuncture technique. Not only have you not registered a huge chunk of our conversation, you don’t even know how the manufacturers claim their product works. I like your pictures, you held up the packet, it even says on the outside of the packet “place a plastic bead (included) in the centre of the adhesive side of the patch”…….so, I guess that’s how they’re claiming to stimulate the acupuncture point yeah? Do you follow now? We did discuss this, acupuncture through stimulation of pressure points. Why are you wasting your time writing a blog discrediting a product when you don’t even understand how the manufacturer is claiming it works?
“Nothing enters the body. LifeWave Energy Enhancer is NOT a transdermal patch. The patches are designed to apply a mild and temporary pressure to acupuncture points that are known to improve the flow of energy through the body. No magnets or needles are used.” – Taken from the lifewave website.
You then pasted a link with the statement that acupuncture could be as young as 300 years old, now I’ll admit that saying 5000 years is just a generalization, but what the article you pasted actually says is – “acupuncture was invented by a Frenchman in 1957”. There is no arguing with ignorance of that magnitude, and frankly, who would want to even bother trying to anyway. I did like the bit in the article were the author implies that it was Chairman Mao who made acupuncture mainstream, but even he didn’t use it because he didn’t believe it worked. An authoritarian Marxist who also didn’t believe that 60 million of his own people deserved to eat, but yeah if he doesn’t believe then I’m convinced. But in all seriousness as a student of psychology articles like this are bread and butter to me. At the start of the article the author makes the statement “Almost everything you’ve heard about acupuncture is wrong”. If that doesn’t immediately raise a red flag in your mind then you shouldn’t be reading it. The author has no idea what the reader has heard about acupuncture, does or doesn’t know about acupuncture, or does or doesn’t believe. It is a catch all statement used to remove information ready to be replaced with a new belief system, this kind of language is more akin to cult mind control than scientific analysis, you are told a blanket statement about how you are wrong about everything and then told the “correct” way to think. The rest of the article is a mixture of fact and opinion woven together to produce an argument against acupuncture. But most staggering of all, is when the author, without any sense of irony or a double standard, discredits all positive studies of acupuncture due to biases towards positive result, when she is doing exactly the same thing towards negative results. I had to laugh at this, how could such an obvious conflict exist in the same piece of writing? Maybe she could have gotten away with it if she was being completely objective and weighing up pro’s and con’s, but considering she started her article with the statement “It’s time the acupuncture myth was punctured”, she unfortunately revealed her own bias for too easily. I don’t know anything about the author but I get the impression she’s a ‘hanger on’ rather than a member of the scientific community.
Anyway I think I’ve said enough and won’t bother writing on this blog again, I’m sure you’re sick of my opinions, and as we can see by reading comments like the one from AndyD, this is a place for anti intellectuals, (that means stupid motherf*ckers in layman’s terms in case you wondered andy). The funny thing is I’m not even pro lifewave, I used them, I believe they had positive results but there’s no way of knowing, I think they’re a rip off and don’t see anything that can’t be recreated by people for a fraction of the cost. But when I see people trying to knock something that they don’t even understand, and they are talking out of their arse, it’s pretty clear that what they’re saying has more to do with their own beliefs than anything based on fact. I don’t think some people understand that when you look for the pro’s and con’s of a subject, and the argument against it is about as water tight as a sieve, it will encourage people to lean towards the other side. Especially when you start up with that peer review mantra, you sound like creationists with that shit, except instead of “If it’s not in the Bible, it doesn’t exist” it’s “If it’s not peer reviewed, it doesn’t exist”.
Take care Maggie xxxxxx